in defense of botting : why crafting bots should be exempt from a ban

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Hendoman, Jun 5, 2018.

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  1. The Hendoman

    The Hendoman Avatar

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    I know there's a fine line between playing a game and 'gaming'a game, and I feel that line should be wide for crafting.

    I've got my producer level to 80, and still it's taking 10 seconds to process one leather. Now i batch 400 a time, so you are talking a lot of down time waiting for just basic mat conversion (from skins to leather, from chunks to ingots, from raw to spools)

    tons of down time, from buying the salts, walking overweight to the crafting tables, setting up SOTA versions of workorders.... this part is NOT fun

    So.... allow the bots to take the sting outta the down time - your demographic isnt 25 - 54 , it's the older generation, not into timesucks... please.

    THE HENDOMAN

    p.s. i have never used a bot, prob. never will, but I am still against the time lost to working mats
     
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  2. CarlNZ

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    Their shouldn't be any botting. Setting it up in the morning and leaving it running while you go to work is too much of an advantage over someone who needs to be physically in front of the computer.
     
  3. redfish

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    But if its not fun, don't do it ;) Nobody is being forced into a choice of doing hundreds of mat conversions manually, versus botting it.

    And if its something should be more fun, then maybe Port should make it more fun...
     
  4. Elrond

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    Why not hire a few new players to make you the mats you need ? No time loss there just few coins.
     
  5. Kabalyero Kidd

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  6. Andartianna

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    No botting even for crafting. Sit in front of your computer and do the work. Being able to program a bot should not be the mark of success in the game. People who spend the time in front of their computer crafting should be rewarded for their efforts not have to compete with a programmer for the same sales.
     
  7. hammadowna

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    This is simply wrong. Botting is never the right answer as you're exploiting the system when there are players doing the right thing.

    Thank you, @Chris. Give an inch and people take a mile!
     
  8. The Hendoman

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    I'll still say this game isn't for kids, (demographic 25-54) but the older market, with a lot of competition in real life for time physically in front of a computer. This demographic is different and needs a different approach than WoW

    and whatever about exploiting the system - PvM or E is nothing but exploiting the game logic system to survive, why is it different for crafting? You depend on rubber-banding to avoid mobbing, hanging out at the entrances and trees to minimize damage...

    on the whole, is craft botting that egregious, when compared to the input needed to battle FOR the mats? can't bots just be allowed for crafting and nothing else? it doesn't HAVE to be a slippery slope

    THE HENDOMAN
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  9. redfish

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    Yea and it goes beyond fairness too IMO. If botting is accepted, it will then help set the standard for prices on the market, so will completely orient the economy around botting. That's not good for gameplay, nor is it good for the devs in figuring out how to improve the game.

    So, for instance, crafting reqs are high on certain items because the devs want them to be rarer. How the devs might learn how to set that is by seeing how much is crafted/produced each day. So, as a consequence, an economy oriented around botting might end up meaning high crafting requirements.
     
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  10. Kabalyero Kidd

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    but there are already AutoMMORPGs out there already... maybe that's a better game for the aging gamer... they have features like Auto-Questing... Auto-Battling... Auto-Pathing... and all sorts of Automated features... it's basically just watching your character play itself... (not sure if there is Auto-Crafting but I'm sure there is Auto-Gathering and Auto-Looting...)
     
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  11. Violet Ronso

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    * Flashbacks of every weekly PVP thread pop to mind when reading this o.o as I give the same answer to those guys as you did for this, just different subject lol! *

    Anyways, The two best solutions I've seen so far, which are the ones I agree 100% with are either Option Elrond the great : Hire new players to do the batch processing for you. Pros : Community Interaction, New player integration, You don't need to sit infront of your PC the whole while. Cons : Your ressources can get stolen, You have no guarantee the new player will finish within a reasonable amount of time.

    Option Hire an NPC! : Hire a NPC to do the chore for you, give him the mats and the fuel, (Maybe some cash as a fee, poor NPC needs to feed his kids!), and go hunt while all the processing is being done by your friendly NPC slave! Pros : You don't need to sit in front of your PC the whole time, The processing is as efficient as can be, You can reclaim your ressources and items whenever you want. Cons : Still no community interaction, How do you balance if there is a fee?

    These are the two solutions I have seen, still wondering how it is gonna work for water buckets :p!
     
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  12. The Hendoman

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    crap... @redfish didn't think of that, botting messing up the market., Didn;t we already have that with the iron ingots last year? or coto manipulation from bots two years ago? wow, I understand now how fleeting memory is- you may have a point.

    So how can the mat producing be made fun? Hire an NPC ala @Marcus Deadshot is nice... and @Kabalyero Kidd , this could be the one game that has crafting bots, but everything else manual and fun... I just don't see what crafting has for interaction ('fun') that requires my input, orr how it is interactive with other players. . Fighting requires my input, so... more 'fun' and 'interaction' like, i have to choose to combo or defense, or whatever. Crafting, it's a lot of no input.

    That's all. Maximize my time thinking. Crafting right now IS like autoplay. just suckier.

    THE HENDOMAN
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  13. redfish

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    No prob, its a common issue with a lot of areas of gameplay, like players will sometimes complain about encumbrance when there's a way to avoid being overencumbered. ;>

    Anyway, I've asked for mechanics to outsource tasks before, like even just for repairing items... and I think there are a lot of ways to facilitate this socially in the game. So for example, encouraging players to specialize their shops, then advertising in game with a more robust bulletin board system that lets people post 'jobs' etc. I think it there are a lot of ways the game can be expanded and improved around community interaction over time.

    Hopefully crafting reqs will also come down in time. I also hope for some crafting mini-games to make the whole process more fun.

    As for right now, I would still stand by the dictum that if you don't find it fun, don't do it. ;>
     
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  14. Mugly Wumple

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    Spend the time or spend the money. What you're asking for is cheaper finished goods. While I admit that refining is not very fun, neither does it take much attention. You're free to read forums, make coffee, chat, even walk the dog. One is not required to compulsively watch the progress bars and notifications.
     
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  15. Diab Blackbow

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    I find crafting so boring that I can't even do it during double XP. That being said, there is no way botting with crafting should be exempt from banning.

    edit--- WTH did I just say?
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  16. Violet Ronso

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    I am right there with you, the only thing double xp changed for me was that I spent more time in mines than usual, but that is it. I have botted too much in my life and have seen it devalue games completly for me that I'm no longer interested in it. I understand the reasons people are upset right now, because the game became a whole lot more annoying for them all of a sudden and they can't stay as efficient, and that is where I hope Port has a solution in mind to make crafting more fun. Maybe all this rage around tonights announcement will force them to do something about it.

    I mean, didn't they have a guy hired to work on crafting? did that guy never realize how tedious this was? I mean I doubt he did, considering a single 1kg log can end up being refined and processed into a total of 4kgs of final product, without a real explanation of how the extra 3kgs got there, but everyone rolls with it somehow!
     
  17. Kaffien

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    It would be nice to have the ability to do things such as make pulp in batches more than 20. I really don't feel like enduring another RSI.
    I don't want to have wrist surgery because of a game. Keep in mind your key demo is like 40 ish and above.

    I'm not saying rampant bottling should be allowed but some basic macroing should be permissible.
     
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  18. The Hendoman

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    @Kaffien sure, there's a skill that increases batch size, and when at 80 or something, the min. batch is from 20 to 50.

    So, i have to go back to the computer every 6 minutes instead of 3 minutes to start the same boring process i do not sit in front of the computer to do.

    it's not a real improvement imho, nor anything that needs my attention, and why i think a bot or a npc hire could improve my enjoyment/attention

    THE HENDOMAN
     
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  19. Violet Ronso

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    Yes, but not for ingredients, just for raw ressources! So things like wood pulp are still 20 per batch no matter your batching level.
     
  20. Jezebel Caerndow

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    Killing monkeys for month after month was not fun either, but it serves a purpose and in the end you can feel proud of YOUR accomplishment. The same goes for refining, when you get done, you feel done and accomplished.
     
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