DarkStarr Quote and Why I Stay Despite My Frustration

I couldnt have said it better myself Bayard, so thank you for doing it for me!

@DarkStarr post was refreshing to read and definitely reinvigorated my enthuism for the game. Great stuff!

 

To me, the common goal is having a successful game. I don't see differences as problems - that's every aspect of life. What I do see as the problem is people not really listening to what others have to say. We can differ on the source of the problem too - that's ok. Our ultimate goals are the same.

 

If you feel good about the money you are spending, find enjoyment and genuinely like the experience, how could that be seen as foolish?

 

Amen Vyrin. I couldn't agree more. @Earl Atogrim von Draken is just being his usual wisenheimer self

The problem is that people aren't listening to one another and the acerbic vitriol that gets spit back and forth is just so unnecessary. It is totally cool that people disagree with one another. From such debate rational solutions and commonalities can be found. It's this extremist mentality and the view that, "If you disagree with me, YOU ARE THE ENEMY!" that just makes no sense. At the end of the day, when you cut through all the BS we all want the same thing. The ultimate success of Shroud of the Avatar.

I respect the f*ck out of @DarkStarr for saying what he did. It shows that he is listening, that he recognizes there are problems and most importantly he is offering a solution and a path forward. I for one am excited by the fact that he is engaging us on this level. As @Ravicus Domdred mentioned in another post, it's the silence from the devs that can be the most grating. So let's stop wasting time b*tching about the things that we cannot change and engage in a way that gets us past that goal line!

 

I agree completely.

Which is not a change... This is what he's been doing all along.

 

**Are we sorry that some players misinterpreted what we posted initially**
We did not misinterpreted anything. They gave up on some features. Pls don't blame the players , there is tons of references supporting my thought.

 

Well shoot Rufus, I been done seen about everything now!

 

And it's also this problem as well:
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?posts/1103821/

 

No, there were plenty of things misinterpreted and thrown out there as facts when plenty of those points have been countered with facts. Just because everything isn't finished in a fashion that you deem acceptable, doesn't mean they have not done it, haven't worked on it, isn't being worked on, or hasn't been implemented. Some people refuse to see anything any other way. Perception matters and it varies, which is why there was misinterpretations. To say there wasn't is to blatantly be oblivious and ignorant to the problem in the first place.

 

How is that anything but putting words in the mouth of the people you don't agree with? You literally try to make up a quote of what other people say. Why not take their statements at face value instead of assuming their internal thought processes? Your post is full of assumptions about others' motives and character. Ad hominem attacks. Thanks, but you didn't point out a new problem, you just added weight to what I said. Brugas I know you think you're trying to help, but are you sure you don't need to take a step back and pay attention to your own words?...

 

Woah there... I know you're not new and I also know you understand what I am talking about and referring to. The forum still has a lot of old and undeleted posts that my point references. It's not assumptions... I've pointed them out and shown the links. Its all there to see for yourself (and for others).

 

Ok - then show me where a person said this: ""you should listen to any criticism, no matter how it's presented, because I'm entitled to complain, bash, spread negativity anyway I want, no matter how harsh, how inflammatory or whether I attack the community, the devs/staff, or the game itself because it's my right to do so". Or is that not, like I said, assuming others' motives and attacking their character?

Point: we never get anywhere by talking about people's motives, only their arguments. If you slip into ad hominem attacks, it's time to take a step back and let others argue the points.

 

Are you seriously going to be like that? You know that isn't a literal quote and a statement reflecting the attitude of these posts and their replies supporting them... but then you do fall into that category at times as well.

 

Do you have supporting evidence for that attack against me or is it again just an assumption thrown out there? I am not always perfect in trying to respond to ad hominem/assumptive/character-based attacks, so maybe. But at least I see the problem with it.

I am going to be like that until you can see that statements like yours need to stop. Please stop assuming motives or "attitudes" as you say. Every time we do that it almost always confuses things even more. If you don't see a problem with what you're doing, go read Darkstarr's new thread and his take on people who criticize.

 

I've already posted links and told where to find stuff proving those statements. It's not an assumption when you can see it for yourself. I am not going further than that. People can look at it if they want.
Yes, I've already read his statement and his newest one. It doesn't change the facts, the sentiment of my posts, or my stance on it. I'm not continuing an "attack" on you nor discussing it with you any further. Some won't be convinced or want to see it any other way anyhow, despite what's shown before them.

Good day to you.

 

You didn't provide a link to any evidence about your statement regarding me, or links to support the statement you made that I quoted. Since you won't directly respond to the points at hand, and only try to point to links that do not support your assumptions about people's motives and character, I guess we are at an impasse. Just let me say that I feel your posts are not helping establish the community feeling that Darkstarr is asking for at this point:

 

In the spirit of comity and compromise, I have liked all posts on this thread whether I agree with them or not. And I did read them all.

I believe in listening to other points of view. They help me grow as a human being.
I believe all people have the right to discuss their points of view in a reasonable manner. This helps me learn new things.

I do not believe hatred and vitriol solves anything. They cannot be reasoned with.
I do not believe people on the reverse side of the coin from me are always wrong. I do not believe that people on the same side of the coin as me are always right.

I will listen to you if you aren't screaming the same thing repeatedly. In self-defense, I will shut you down if you are.
I will change my mind on topics. Not because I always need *proof*, but because when you're right you're right.

I prefer to build bridges not walls. But I find I am unable to build bridges to those who already have walls in place.
I prefer to discuss things. But I won't waste my time trying to discuss things with people who made up their mind and there is no room for them to allow other views in.

I yearn for peace, but acknowledge that sometimes you have to fight in order to keep the peace.
I yearn for a middle ground. Compromise means less fighting, more peace.

My bottom line is that, just like @Bayard, I get frustrated too. With things that happen or don't happen with SOTA. I have expressed that frustration in the forums many times over the years and even had to eat crow a number of times because I made a total ass of myself. The biggest problem I see is the divided community taking out their frustrations on each other. And for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. And so the wheel turns and the lack of reasonable communication disintegrates into tribalism.

It's fine to talk. Just maybe it's time to listen better?

 

Very much this.

I get the frustrations on both ends, especially when you’re passionate about a game and wanting to see it succeed. Is it perfect? No. Is it all that was expected? No. Is that okay? Well, that’s a personal decision.

There’s a lot of things that still need polish, despite being a released game. Doesn’t mean there are not enjoyable aspects that people are playing, but there’s certainly room for improvement. Honestly, trying to please EVERYONE is just as damaging as doing nothing, imo. I’m okay with them sticking to their guns when they deem necessary, as not all games should be cookie cutter uniform.

But everyone can definitely benefit from chilling out a bit. At the end of the day, it’s a game, meant for entertainment, and being produced by human beings who are capable of flaws like the rest of us. Holding them to an extreme pedestal or berating them unduly is neither productive or frankly polite.

It’s okay to not like what someone else likes. Not okay to tell them not to.

 

This is not a black and white issue. Aka Black vs White Knight. That is a false equivalence. If you dont know, they are currently over there on Reddit calling peoples names out over here who are arguing with them and threatening to DOX them. DOX is when they stalk you on the internet and find any personal information they can and post it in retaliation. I have reported a lot of those posts to Reddit but this is something they have done for years. You may be surprised how many people on these forums they call out over there and rip you to shreds.

So it is a false equivalent to say "both" sided are bad. I see a lot of people here simply saying positive things about the game and expressing their opinions. I dont see the "white knights" threatening to internet stalk much less anything else you read over on those sites where they live.

Again, this is only done by a set of 5-10 people who generate all of these issues.

 

You said it boss!