Worthwhile Dungeon loot

I like this a lot. Great way to encourage players to take on tough challenges and visit many different scenes instead of farming the same.

 

Thanks guys for all of the dialogue, if nothing else, maybe the devs will at least look at this, and give some of the ideas some consideration.

 

The loot system is a bit complicated, especially for a MMO and a player based economy. There’s only so much they can do.

 

I bitched about loot several years ago again and again.

The end of a Dungeon loot is still a joke?
You still have to kill the same boss hundreds of times which can easily kill you to "maybe" find something worthwhile?
Some super hard mobs still drop a few coin pieces?

So nothing has changed here as well, "sad once again".

 

Not true, it isn't really that complicated.
There is a lot more they "could" do.
But i have given up already several years ago

And the economy in SotA is already way off anyways.

 

What specifically should a creature be dropping every time? Can you tell us what that should be?

 

The main problem of this game is not exactly only "what" creatures drop.

The main problem that needs adjustments since years is how the loot is being distributed throughout Novia.
As i wrote in another thread yesterday different regions should drop/give different materials/ressources/loot.
Not everything you need should drop in your fav 2-3 farming zones in the same region.
There is literly no need to travel arround in novia to dig arround for different stuff unless you want a specific artifact (but most artifacts are global drops anyway).

Also, the "feel" of progression is lacking when it comes to loot.
There is nearly no difference between a lowbie skeleton and an T10 skeleton besides the chance of maybe some bag/artifact dropping.
In general, when it comes to basic loot the loottables are way too generic set up for most normal mobs.
And killing a boss 100 times in a row to maybe find something worthwhile gets old really fast.
Killing bosses sometimes give less loot than lowbie skeletons.

When it comes to dungeons & chest, they are a joke, expecially in the higher Tier dungeons.

We have tons of freaking cool looking zones in Novia, yet you rarely need to visit more than 5 zones because there is simply no point (unless you are questing).
But once you are done with questing nothing leads you to other zones.
I just simply don't need to travel, hunt and farm in other zones.
I can ignore 95% of the content in the game, which is just sad.
Most dungeons in this game are not worth the effort, there is no need to hunt in them or to the end of them.
Which again, is just very sad.

 

@GrayFog can you provide then an exact specific example of what then these loot drops would be?

 

Maybe i was not clear enough.
Loottables just need some smaller adjustments mostly depending of the Tier of the mobs.

For example:
a T10+ mob/boss shouldn't drop just 5 coins like a T1 mob

a T10+ mage should drop more reagents than a T1 mage (while a T1 mage might mostly never drop reagents)

a T10+ skeleton shouldn't always drop the same basic standard loot like a T1 skeleton
a T1 skeleton shouldn't always drop the same basic loot like a T10+ skeleton (that means a T1 skeleton should rarely drop his weapon etc.)
If you are not looking for artifacts there is no point in hunting/farming T10+ skeletons

a T10+ mob shouldn't really drop the same artifact like a T5 mob

a T## whatever mob in the north east corner of Novia shouldn't have the same loottable like a T## whatever mob in the south west corner
As it is now (and it always was), when it comes to loot, materials and ressources regions and most dungeons are meaningless in this game.


Different regions and zones should have unique loottables with ressources/materials/artifacts etc. that can be found ONLY in that zone or region!


I am not really sure how else i could explain what i am talking about.

 

The higher tier the mob, the better the chance to get rare recipes, artifacts and such. They don't drop more gold because then it just becomes a gold farm.

 

Yes and it is quite boring that most recipes, artifacts and such drop just everywhere in the game no matter where you are.

 

I don't have an issue as such with 'higher level mobs' not dropping more *coin* - their weapons are worth a bit more than lower level mobs (usually), too.
I think that a low or mid level player needs to make a living and participate in the economy, too.
I think this is by design, and its okay.

I absolutely agree with GreyFog's suggestion above about getting different stuff in different places. A few zones are decent examples - Crag Foothills is where you go to get "elf stuff" (and iron, and pine trees ...all the nodes in the zone are iron/pine). If I want "Barbarian Stuff" I have a few choices on that too. Most zones are not so focused, they are a bit of hodgepodge everything. Yes, its frustrating to open a corpse and have it drop 5g, no weapon, no reagents, nothing. I don't think loot should ever be so bad on a single target.

They used to drop their weapons every time but this got changed to "sometimes" when they added the pattern system. Ever try to farm a katana? 3 hours of slaying and you get like ...6 drops. - this is before the insulting salvage chance mind you.
Honestly I think this "sometimes it drops nothing" is my biggest issue with the loot system. Its even more insulting when its a boss mob and it drops a spider silk and 6 gold.

Don't get me started on the pointlessness of boss killing in this game.
With the dragons, at the very least, you usually get a haunch, and you get some producer XP for skinning it. I think all boss creatures need some sort of "gimmie" that you always get, to make them remotely worth doing.
I don't think having more demon hooves or phoenix talons floating around (so the consumables they make would actually be viable to craft) would be a bad thing, either. But with the current drop rates, that's a laugh.

 

Could tie some of it into peoducer specializations. Have all animals just “drop” thier carcass Take a carcass to a butcher specialist to have a good shot at rare bones and stuff or non specialist for what u get now.

Harvesting specialists easily get more rare stuff of thier type, refining speciAlist get higher batch count and 5% more efficiency or something.

And have crafting skill specializations make loot more valuable. Higher salvage rates for patterns and components worth more to the NPC vendor, ability to repair with scrap (and let the dang item still drop scrap ifit drops a pattern) instead of repair kits so the value of looted equipment can be increased by a blacksmith/carpentry/tailor specialist, stuff like that

Send it thru limited crafting channels to promote even more trade and producer specialization

 

Yes that is my concern. While dungeon creating looks good on paper imo it will be touchy to get implemented to not be a horrible try to giving this game features to bring in players. Fixing our lack luster systems we already have would have been a first step and I still worry for those. We could have had awesome fishing, agriculture, cooking, our pet system, taming, and brewery but the lack of focus kept straying away from these in a desperate push to get other things to bring players in. While who would come to this game just because someone says "hey Shrouds has a terrific fishing system" verses "hey in Shrouds you can create and build your own dungeon". I do see that it is sounding more beneficial to promote the dungeon building aspect but at what cost? Still players come to this game and want to do a little of everything even dungeon building and you show them fishing or agriculture and they're like what? Hmmm. And you have to say ummm well it's not finished yet and fishing isn't the only system that is less than it should be in this game. Don't forget in your excitement please. @Chris @Lord British

I have played two other games with dungeon building and it is only a temporary use of my time and if those games did not have other things to keep me there my unused dungeon was surely not enough. We will be over-runned with them. Can you imagine a player owned town with house after house having a dungeon in it? It is crazy to even think of this. Go check out Everquest 2s dungeon building if you have never played a game that has the feature so you can speak also from experience of what not to do while making this a viable thing for this game and not just another failed system.

As always I speak up for the success of this game but imo neglecting what we already have is a huge mistake. It all counts. We need to be proud of all our game systems even dungeon building.

 

I don't think they're neglecting what they have. But there's only 15 or so people at the company right now. Right ?

There's 200 people or less on steam... Something must give.

We must move the game forward, fixing and doing performance as well, but also I think allowing players to create content, if it's robust enough, will be a big deal, that can take some pressure of the devs at least for a little bit so that players have things they can focus on.

It will also make the game better to allow more variety of dungeons, it will give town owners something to do, and it will give crafters something to do.

Also it's probably a lot easier to do with the post release staff talent than say.... adding ship battles in.

No, it's not going to keep people's focus forever, but it is yet another involved thing to do after you've done other stuff in the game.

I actually don't think the systems in this game are lackluster. This game has super deep items, crafting compared to many other games that are popular. Yes, things like fishing need some help, but we're getting at least some update to that in the next 2 releases.

You have been playing this game for the entire pre-alpha, which is a very long period of time. 4 years... most games don't keep people's attention that long.

I understand where you're coming from, but I have watched your posts become less and less positive over the years.... and I would venture to say perhaps it's just a little fatigue with the game ?

I highly recommend taking breaks when this happens, it will be a breath of fresh air when you return. I know that I will consume content faster than the game can provide it so I will probably have to do the same as well.

 

You are not truly reading what I say then. Try again. I am speaking for everyone and every system. I only speak this strongly because I see a disservice happening and the team floundering trying to find ways to succeed. Lack of focus to complete systems is a big deal and this was before the team got split in half.

I do totally enjoying my time in game. I always have something going on and good times in game. You just hear negative instead of truth. You think glossing over incomplete systems is helping this game?

I do strongly disagree and not because I'm negative but because I truly believe it hurts the game showing off our systems that way. I want the devs to finish what they start before running onto some other thing to get players to come to play. I dont say the dungeon system is not a good thing or even a wonderful thing. That is not the point.

What I am saying is make it good while they are at it and check everquest 2 s dungeon building to not make the same mistakes and for heaven's sake give us a wonderful fishing update and don't call me out for being negative. You don't know what you're talking about.

The quality of the game we are playing is important and details are important and should not be less than this game deserves. I am here for the long term. I will fight for this and not because I am negative. Someone needs to speak the truth. I will at this point in development request focus to systems we already have too. I call out to other players to speak up too.

We are at a time in development many of us have been waiting for since 2013. It is the time to do what needs to be done. Give us many bait types that certain fish want and all that jazz of details and don't let one person say this game doesn't deserve every system in them to get those great updates over another system. And this is not negativity it is facts. And don't neglect dungeon building by lack of research to make it fun. I want all systems in the game to get what they need.

I will fight just as much for dungeon building too to be an awesome system. Why would I not? This is my game. I will complain though if it stops progress and wrecks the fishing update or any other systems update. You can count on this.

 

What system(s) do you feel are currently not properly functioning? @majoria70 ?

 

The better question would be "what systems need improvements?"

fishing
boring global loottables
taming
plate/melee builds
overall economy
UI
quest system
journal
recipe book
PVE content, difficulty (everything is soloable)
PVP still a huge work in progress
tons and tons of zones are empty/useless, no point in visiting them other than for questing
raids (oh wait that was a long time ago and everything is soloable anyway )
...
and quite a few more


But hey, they want to add dungeon building, that's great i guess. Expecially since it will indeed end like in EQ2.
It will be interesting for a couple of month. But then almost nobody cares anymore because every Joey has the same dungeons in his POT.

 

Yeah I always like more loot, especially useful loot in some fashion. If I had to compare to games where I really like the loot systems, it would probably 2 main ones.

1.) Dungeons & Dragons (PnP/RPG): You have tons and tons of loot options, tables, etc. Granted, they've had 40 years to develop various loot, various game editions, and a tremendous amount of community support over the years, I think it is a prime example of all that could be done with loot in a basic scenario of acquisition in a sword & sorcery fantasy game. I generally liked the tables from AD&D 2nd Edition to right up to the beginning of 3rd Edition. Mobs and encounters would have various loot rolls for their treasure. The loot tables were broken down into letter categories that ranged from gems, mundane items, scrolls, potions, to near artifact type items, with increasingly harder chances to get the good stuff. There were entire encyclopedias dedicated to loot and even more if you compiled all the stuff from every supplement, module, adventure, magazine & periodical (which a good bit was stuffed into the encyclopedia though not nearly all).

2.) Path of Exile: This is kind of like a Diablo-styled loot system only better. This is one of the few examples where loot & skills form a symbiotic yin-yang relationship. Not only does the game keep pouring in new loot, there is an amazing amount of different types of loot and even amongst a type of loot, there can be many, many variants based on stats, sockets, and links. In this game, the loot can truly be a game changer... not one of those where you just have a more powerful version of a low level item that makes you a good bc of just better base states, but the gear in this game can literally "change the mechanics" of the game by they effects they offer which also leads to many, many types of skill builds for characters. I don't honestly ever see SotA ever becoming something like this, because this was the core principal of the game and they built it from the ground up around these mechanics.

I would love to see a huge influx of items from all levels, mundane to artifact.. maybe even truly *artifact* levels of power, all across the board for all zones. There is no real excitement factor for loot and that is one of my primary game play reasons in an RPG type, non-fps/non-pvp or skirmish type games. The loot keeps the grind bearable and its really kind of lackluster here in SotA. I still love the game though, this is just another area I think need some love just like polishing up the quests and doing a complete journal/compendium overhaul.

I know this game has a lot of focus on making only player items the best in game, but that is a pretty horrible idea to completely stick with. Thankfully they made it where crafters can enhance loot drops and maybe we can keep it like that so crafters have some play in future loot while keeping a compromise of having the best gear being done by players (through enhancement) and not just created from scratch. Definitely kills the excitement of looting and hasn't done too well so far... can't really think of any games where that was exciting at all. Star Wars Galaxies may have been similar by a stretch... though, like here, you could loot bonus/special mats to make your craft better... but SWG had the whole randomized-materials you gather that changed like every 5 days as a chase factor (getting really good stat resources was great and you always tried various combinations to get the best gear with the resources available up to that time... definitely not like SotA though).

 

Several years ago tho, this game was just starting to be developed. So basically it's like saying "I gave up immediately".

Look, I understand the complaints about loot, but when people hold up Diablo as an example of what "sensible loot" should look like, I have to draw the line there....