A few words about PVP...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pavlitto, Feb 19, 2019.

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  1. Pavlitto

    Pavlitto Avatar

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    Hi everyone. I know that this topic has been raised many times. But I want to discuss it again. I will speak on behalf of the Russian community. A few words about PVP... In our Guild a lot of new players and a lot of people want PVP. They ask me: "what about PVP in this game?". What should I answer?

    There's no reason to go to PVP except for fun. You need to collect very good equipment, make a special build. What for? No rewards for PVP. There are no locations for farming something unusual and valuable. There are no ratings or tournaments. There is no motivation.

    Many new players after my honest answer leave the game.

    This is very sad, because we are engaged in attracting new players in our language segment.

    And now many old players are looking for other projects. For this reason, I write this message, in the hope that the Devs and @Chris will pay attention and change something.
     
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  2. Jezebel Caerndow

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    Actually, there is things that you can only get in pvp zones. White dragon head, green dragon head, obsidian lich helm, judges wig, the fall arty drops, some dungeon stuff. There are also tournaments and ratings. Virtue league is a pvp tournament 1v1 and shroudbot does a rating thing I think.
     
  3. Antrax Artek

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    All the things you mentioned are absolutely unrelated to pvp (they're just pve/social/housing rewards in pvp zones), as the various emotes and titles obtainable at the obsidian trials. :)

    These are things that many non-pvpers would like to have and that the pvpers would gladly give away for real pvp contents.

    Shroudbot and VL are players created rating system and event trying to overcome the lack of real pvp contents like factions, castle sieges and official leaderboard.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  4. Scoffer

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    There is also price of the oracle when you kill someone.
    Zones along the main quest line that force players into pvp
    10% xp bonus for being flagged pvp in multiplyaer zone (I think that's still active?)
     
  5. Antrax Artek

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    1) Oracle Ransom is not always a reward, it is just if you win the fight or are quick enough to loot it, most of the time, especially for new players is a penalty (for example i don't loot ppl for choice, just enemies who loot me) ;)

    2) Zone along the main quest line don't force players to pvp since there is always a non-pvp way to reach the quest goal. https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f.../path-of-love-forces-pvp-combat.151139/unread

    3) 10% xp bonus does not go beyond attenuation so it means just attenuation roughly a couple of mins before the non-pvp flagged.
     
  6. Pavlitto

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    I wrote: "something unusual and valuable". What you listed isn't. Only Bacchanal Belt worth. But my friends and I spent a lot of time in the Fall, but we never saw belt in loot. What sense to sit for days in Fall if you can buy belt for 300k?
    Spider Silk Belt worth 1kk for example and this unusual and valuable.

    these are events of players, not developers
     
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  7. Mangar

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    Look folks I 100% agree w/Antrax, this could be a great game but it needs more, especially in the PvP dept.

    1. In-game ladder system with Tiers & worthy rewards. Resetting every 3 months.
    2. Large challenging PvP zones where Attenuation applies for 3mil XP. These Zones should have mini boses & a big Boss or 2 who can drop any Artifact with up to x2 Durability & a possible extra stat or effect.
    Also, any random blank with up to x2 Durability & a possible extra stat or effect.
    3. Obsidian Trials should be fixed as it's a fantastic idea, but needs more love.

    Just these 3 steps would give enough motivation that most PvP loving players would stick around.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  8. Vladamir Begemot

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    When asked about PvP I let new players know that there's not a lot of it going on, but they can get in with some PvP guilds that will get them a lot more exposure to it. I usually mention yours @Antrax Artek .

    I also mention the Virtue League.

    To be able to move from "Not a lot" to yeah we've got it and it's great I think there's a pretty easy set of steps that need to be taken, and I hope they get taken soon.

    1. Finish the Obsidian Trials, creating systems that will be used for Castle and Palisade Defense
      • Let players select their cap, 100 doesn't satisfy any noobs, and noobs have just as much of a right to PvP as we do. Caps at 50, 80, 100, and maybe one higher should be available.
        • Or switch to a boost and bump everyone's skills to 100, thus giving new players a chance to participate.
      • Build a queue system that teleports you in from anywhere, to your Tier battle specifically, not to just any battle
      • Remove the endless wait for a match to finish
      • Polish away the bugs
    2. Build a kiosk that lets us set up a PvP ruleset including Ransom yes/no, Tier cap/floor, goals (flip the banner, Team wipe), scoreboard, and player registration
      1. The above kiosk lets us do the first stage of a whole lot of Castle Defense. We don't have climbing ladders yet, or the environmental effects one would hope for one day (ladders, catapults, etc) but we do suddenly have a sandbox tool to make some interesting battles.
    3. In game leaderboard with tabs for weekly champions in the trials, open PvP, kiosk style events, and I would go so far to say let the Virtue League submit its winners as well.
    That's the rest of the year, so we see where we are after that.
     
  9. Mishikal

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    Yep, I can confirm it's possible to do the entire quest lines w/o ever going into PvP, as I did exactly this. It just requires knowing how to traverse the underground network to get into certain spots.
     
  10. Weins201

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    going to ask the one question that is the root of this problem?

    What would one consider "Motivation" to PvP.

    Now what has been discussed is something akin to Factions. But this is really the same thing as the player run events just with some kind of In game evaluation?

    They have placed ALOT of things that Mac mentioned that are exclusive to PvP areas. Sure they are "PvE" items but that equates to exactly what UO had with the Scroll Spawns, which was also something that was promised here would NEVER happen but has.

    PvP can be some of the most challenging parts of games but here there is exactly what you eluded to the "special equipment" and more importantly the SPECIAL BUILD which can be accomplished easily since there ins zero skill caps. Just train them all up and pick the ones that work the best against who you are fighting.

    So it all loops back to what one considers Incentives or Motivation?

    When you come up with it I can almost guarantee that you ar going to say something like a special item? and when oyu get it, everyone will just want more.

    The created the game with MANY PvP specific zones that had special critters in them and with more resource spawns than "Normal" areas, but they ended up being dead zones, I frequent them often because they are different than the normal grind.

    They created a whole Town so players could fight over Lots, and they flashed in the pan even worse than the Shardfalls. Also now there is a boosted spawn in Blood bay, There has Never been decay in Blood Bay while decay was there. There are a few unique Spawns in Blood Bay, but still the entire place is a ghost town. I have spent HOURS there walking around the circle to only see one other person. Also there are open lot as we speak that are village sized and I thought I even came across a town one.

    So when they get the "King of the Hill" type areas up and running what will keep people going back to them? They introduced the Obsidian Trials and they are also a waste land.

    In the end since this is NOT a PvP game nothing they can do will appease the PvP crowd and if they start to cater to just them they will have broken the one promise that will have 75% + of those who still back the game walking away.

    Head to the PvP forums and work on a very concise concept that will work to entice PvP and see if it can be flushed out.

    Remember though you have to NOT work it like Sheep to the Wolves, that will kill the game for sure.
     
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  11. ZODROT

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    Most of non pvpers live in houses and upper tears. And there is alot of decoraction conent for them to be happy.
    We need more pvp content !
    And I need dislike button with counter! you have like button , give us dislike too!
     
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  12. Pavlitto

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    Remember UO? Ok. There was a perfect PVP motivation with a full drop, and after it was removed introduced another motivation in PVP. The MOST valuable items in the game have drop ONLY in PVP. Skill scrols, Stat Scrols, Replicas, huge amount money. Gathering resources has been strongly increased in PVP locations. This is the motivation. 25 black pearls from sand elementals in Blood bay- not!
     
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  13. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    The troll in me agrees with you. But the resonablre part knows that a dislike button is a tool of massdestruction to a community like this ;-) so let's stay with showing our disagreement with words ^^
     
  14. Spinok

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    @Chris
    What we have:
    1) Low DEV resources and time.
    2) Lack of conflict and politics in guild relationships.
    3) Lack of end game content.
    4) Lack of PVP.
    5) Many PVP zones which cannot be respawned -> hard for a long time grinding.
    6) Rich community.

    What we should maintain:
    1) Low/no discrimination of single player
    2) No new gold generation via PVP.

    What devs could do for overall benefits and what will help to solve 1-5 noticed points:
    1) Claiming the zone which will bring increased att cap for ALL in this zone. Claiming the zone could be based for example on wave mechanics like in BB or CP, after group hit last wave(imho it should be very hard) guild claim zone. To reclaim it another party should do the same again. (Low time to implement)
    2) Add boss in PVP zone and DRAMATICALLY reduce respawn times for everything in it. (very low time to implement)
    3) One worn item can be dropped in PVP without the possibility of any ransom(this should go together with crafting specs) (Low time to implement)
     
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  15. majoria70

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    I don't agree that xp rewards would fix pvp. More xp as incentive. This is always what is asked for more xp. I agree about the Trials being a missed opportunity. I wrote to Chris about it. I know he is crazy busy but sheesh everything getting improved is either about more loot or more xp. Where are the systems that add fun. IMO It is not totally up to us players to make our own fun. I do not put down really fun efforts like the Virtue League. I have enjoyed watching those a few times. I say we could have had trials starting up that gave timed, challenging efforts to raid groups to compete against each other. A notice pops up that the trials are starting and automatically teleported there if you click join when it pops up.

    For example it would be An effort similar to Wintergrasp where groups could heal t and raise their comrades in their raid group. Also pvp bounty quests and players who get kill points, red titles, and non kill resolutions sometimes even. The depth of pvp is lacking in this game. There needs to be more reasons to pvp than searching for victims and us creating what we can. It is the same with so much in the problems of this game.

    With low budget this game has always suffered not getting the attention each system needs. We are always deficient in one way or the other. Where are our raid systems? Why do we have imo the not needed ransom system that keeps many players from pvp verses pvp with reason that calls to players who want to pvp? For example: Calling all pvp to the trials. Be the first team to complete the quest, capture the flags before the timer goes off. Teams are auto filled if no faction system so there are two big teams. Rewards then can be given for various aspects of completion. Team who takes the trials could have some advantage. Teams will have to strategize with each other to win. Factions have been asked for but if we don't get those at least entering the trials puts you in one to compete. I don't agree with so many reasons pvp is not good in this game. It is not a matter of more except for time and money to get those raid systems in, get rid of ransoms, give reasons to pvp including quests, bounties, and content. Don't ask for xp because you will probably get it and nothing else. It is the cheapest reward ever and does not fix much at all. One day everyone will have all GM's possible and then what?

    Other systems cheapest way to add content is to make it a grindfest like fishing too, cooking that never got developed so lower foods are useless. We just keep waiting on more depth and more development money. Again where is our windfall to finally pull things together. Ok ranting a bit and not just on pvp but of course pvp too.

    Edited typos and cleared up some thoughts to be clearer and worded differently.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  16. Lesni

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    I'm still a newbie at PVP.
    But here is a suggestion.
    The Obsidian Trials is said to be broken.

    Why not turn the Obsidian Trials area into a PVP full loot Empire.
    Give the entire area to a guild.
    Let them control and own the area.

    All of the houses, deeds, loot, chests, walls etc are owned by the guild that is 'in control'.
    Anything in the Obsidian Trials Empire belongs to the guild that 'controls' the area.

    Any other guild or avatar that can 'conquer' the area and hoist their flag 'owns' the empire and ALL of the contents of the area.

    Of course, this could be done in any other area if there is a problem/bug with using the Obsidian Trials area.

    (Lesni sits back waiting for the flaming to start) :D
     
  17. Rixa Ultima

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    Guys,you are talking,but devs Just don't care about pvp and the balance talk "till you die,you Will get back only promises.
     
  18. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    You could as well split the area of controll between guilds. Like 4 chunks. So more guilds can participate in it. Could do same to Bloodbay.
     
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  19. Jefe

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    So wasn't there an entire island in episode 2 supposed to be devoted to PvP?

    Perhaps territorial control may be the intent of that island.

    Otherwise, all I hear from this is a request to wall off definitive best loot in game to a subsection of players so they can feel special.
     
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  20. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    I am sure that is what you wanted to hear.
    See, the loot wouldn't be walled off. You just would have to do pvp.
    And don't gimme the "but i don't want to do pvp" stuff.
    I could as well say i don't want to do dungeons. The loot is walled off! Do something against it nau! Sounds ridiculous, right?
    And it wouldn't get us very far. No, this is about fun mechanics. Sure, we want benefits. But the very same benefits can drop where ever if it is up to me. I don't need exclusive loot. And if it is exclusive i don't want it to be better than any other loot Joe Average can obtain.
     
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