Traders - How do you refill your vendors? (Poll and survey)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Spoon, Sep 23, 2019.

?

How easy/difficult do you find it refilling vendors?

  1. 5 - easy peasy - no need to improve

    14.0%
  2. 4 - efficient - other things should have higher prio

    14.0%
  3. 3 - easy but time consuming - might need some small tweaking

    22.0%
  4. 2 - unnecessarily difficult - needs some ease-of-use feature

    32.0%
  5. 1 - soul crushingly tedious - really need an overhaul

    20.0%
  6. Spoon, please notify me of any petition for changes

    8.0%
  7. Spoon, I'd like to review your suggestions before you post them

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Spoon, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated

    6.0%
  9. I don't do vendors

    6.0%
  10. Spoon, ssshhh, it is all a conspiracy by the carpal tunnel surgeons

    14.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

    Messages:
    8,403
    Likes Received:
    23,554
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    .
    With refill I mean both sell and buy, ie, restock and reorder.
    .


    Another pet peeve of mine.

    I really hate the clunky-ness of refilling vendors. To the point where I've had to increase prices so I won't get as many sales.
    So I thought I would make another drive at getting some dev attention to the easy & cheap fixes.

    (@Vladamir Begemot has made a great huge list, my thought was that I'd lift out some easy ones which would take less than a dev day to fix).

    But maybe I've missed something obvious and there are some tricks and tips to it?

    So please describe how you refill your vendors, especially multiple stacks of consumables like scrolls, food etc or multiples of buy orders.
    If you find it easier to vid then that would be even better.


    I will add a description of my own in a post below.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  2. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

    Messages:
    8,403
    Likes Received:
    23,554
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    EDIT

    Glossary
    Pile - the starting pile of product to be divvied and put on vendor
    Stack - stack of product to be sold as one listing​


    Use Case - Refilling consumables
    For consumables I usually sell stacks of product, with small stacks at a higher pricepoint and large stacks at a lower pricepoint.
    So my first problem is to get the single pile into multiple stacks with the amount I seek. Then to add those to the vendor.
    1. Start with a chest next to vendor with a huge pile of consumable X in (think crowns, food, potions, scrolls, or such items)
    2. Open the chest
    3. Resize chest inventory window to get maximum height - ie max number of rows in GUI
    4. Shift drag pile to split
    5. Click drag to highlight field
    6. Keyboard to Enter stack size number
    7. Click to commit
    8. repeat 4-7 for first the smaller stacks then the larger stacks until window fills up
    9. Double click vendor
    10. select the manage inventory tab
    11. drag stack from chest window to vendor window
    12. Click drag to highlist price field
    13. keyboard to enter price number
    14. click to commit
    15. repeat 11-14 until all stacks are in
    16. repeat 4-15 for next product
    Use Case - Refilling buy orders
    For orders it depends but usually you want a mix of stack sizes here as well
    1. Double click vendor
    2. select the manage orders tab
    3. click in filter field
    4. enter name of object
    5. double click object
    6. click drag to highlight number
    7. keyboard to enter number
    8. click drag to highlight price
    9. keyboard to enter price (usually I copy the price here so I can paste in repititions)
    10. click to commit
    11. repeat 5-10 for stacks and sizes
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  3. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    3,738
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    earth... mostly
    Honestly, if I wasn't idealistic about providing a coto exchange network, I would have given up long ago. It takes up most of my game time and there is nothing enjoyable about the vendor mechanics.
     
    Elwyn, Daigoji Gai, Rentier and 3 others like this.
  4. Lars vonDrachental

    Lars vonDrachental Avatar

    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    I still don’t understand why they use two mechanics to sell items. :(
    If we could just e.g. dump 597 mandrakes at the vendor at price X and the customers could adjust the number of items they would like to buy just as the devs can do with the sales at NPCs this would be simplest.
    If this needs an GUI for management I guess three layers would be sufficient.

    Layer 1 is the inventory of the vendor and is used like any other storage.

    Layer 2 is a price sheet for your sales. Basically a list of items with name, number of items in the vendors inventory and the sales price. Normally there is an option activated to show just the items the vendor is offering to shorten the list.
    Mandrake – 58 – 4 = you would like to sell mandrake for 4 gold each and you currently have 58 on sale

    Layer 3 is a price sheet for buy order containing a list of items with name, number of items you would like to have at max in the vendors inventory and the buy price.
    Mandrake – 50 – 4 = you would like to buy mandrake for 4 gold each and you would like to finally have 50 mandrake in the vendors inventory
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  5. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    Trophy Points:
    153
    My own view a simple thing that could speed things up would be if each time you put up an item have it remember your last price if possible. Same for buy orders would love it if it could remember the last number I sold and at what price so there is a lot less clicking.
     
  6. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

    Messages:
    8,403
    Likes Received:
    23,554
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    Very much agreed, however my idea in this thought exercise is scoped as:
    "my thought was that I'd lift out some easy ones which would take less than a dev day to fix"
    so more the minimum effort for decent effect kinda stuff.

    You make a lot of updates to your stock, do you refill the same way I do? With all the steps and clicks and whatnots?
     
    Vladamir Begemot likes this.
  7. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    3,738
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    earth... mostly
    Yes. 100s of times a day. on a slow day.
     
  8. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

    Messages:
    6,331
    Likes Received:
    12,109
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Deffo needs QoL improvments.
    Like batch selling as in the WoW auction house e.g.
    Would already help a lot.
    I, on a regular basis, refrain from refilling my vendors after farming because it's an annoyance.
     
    Elwyn, Vladamir Begemot and Spoon like this.
  9. Lained

    Lained Avatar

    Messages:
    2,786
    Likes Received:
    4,772
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Location:
    Yeovil, England
    Pretty much the same process. Also if I was restarting my character I'd choose a much shorter name the signing of the contract adds to the wasted time.

    This, with simple UI features like tab to next field and enter complete.
     
    Elwyn, Rentier and Vladamir Begemot like this.
  10. Sentinel2

    Sentinel2 Avatar

    Messages:
    1,109
    Likes Received:
    1,811
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't understand why we haven't implemented a mechanism where the seller puts his hundreds or thousands of say gold or wood on a vender (one large stack basically), sets a price per gold/wood (or whatever). Then the buyer tells the vendor s/he wants x number to purchase. It would make selling/buying much easier.

    Yes? / No?

    Restocking would be far easier I would think in that case.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  11. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    As much as I would like that, I'd probably still sell in stacks, else I'd be out of inventory too quickly.
     
  12. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Now that would be a better option put in large stacks and have it work like the NPC's where a person could just buy 1 or all.
     
    Witcheypoo, Chatele and Sentinel2 like this.
  13. Sentinel2

    Sentinel2 Avatar

    Messages:
    1,109
    Likes Received:
    1,811
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How?

    If they buy hundreds or thousands from you. How would that change anything?

    I can select multiple stacks and buy you out right now. Restocking is more of a challenge than it needs to be.

    Or I can put in stacks of thousands and buyers can purchase as many as they want at a time.

    I don't see how this would impact you the seller. Other than make it easier to just drop everything I need upon a vendor and set a per item price. Would simplify things greatly IMO.
     
    Witcheypoo and Chatele like this.
  14. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    6,194
    Likes Received:
    12,076
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Good news! (For long named characters, bad for short names) About six months ago they made it so all names take the same time to sign.

    So if you rename your character to ABC, you'll just spell out ABC like a 2 year old... very... very slowly. And if your name is superkalafradgalisticexpealadocious, you'll spell it out in the same time, which through the wonders of relativity, is quite fast.

    ----

    I'm actually very happy that wood prices are so high, it means that I can just blame not restocking on that, and do other things with my life instead of clawing my eyeballs out looking at the vendor UI.

    Here's my total overhaul. As you can see, Partial Stack Sales is the first item. That alone will remove a lot of pain. My worry is that if it every happens will be the only thing that gets fixed for at least 3 more years, as vendors are obviously super low priority.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fmre-08uMn7RBMdhj_d-m93TzAsdKsffKEFfE70v2xc/edit?usp=sharing

    If I were up to the task I would code some generic + psuedocode version of the above so they can plug them into NGUI, their UI system, with the least possible work. But alas, I am not.
     
  15. Lained

    Lained Avatar

    Messages:
    2,786
    Likes Received:
    4,772
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Location:
    Yeovil, England
    Now you mention it that rings a bell a shame they balanced the timing the wrong way.
     
    Elwyn, Rentier and Vladamir Begemot like this.
  16. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    That assumes I would be listing my entire inventory in stacks. But yes, I see your point; my initial interpretation was that I'd use this system to list all my stuffs at once. On second thought, I'd probably list only a portion of my inventory at a time, but use this system to allow buyers to buy as many as they want of that portion.
     
  17. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    6,194
    Likes Received:
    12,076
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    "Immersion".

    One thing that has happened during my time in Shroud is that I am now very skeptical about how the word immersion is used.
     
    Lained likes this.
  18. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    986
    Trophy Points:
    93
    It sounds like for a lot of people the biggest part of the problem is the frustration of splitting and dragging stacks.

    That really isn't a vendor issue, though -- it affects all of us, when dragging things between containers, to the bank, etc. I'd like to see it fixed for all of us, not just for vendors.
     
    Chatele, Lained and Spoon like this.
  19. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    6,194
    Likes Received:
    12,076
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    And here's the irony. The entire economy runs on vendors.

    People don't like the economy, but we don't for a moment consider the possibility that it would be better if the vendor UI didn't cause carpel tunnel over time.

    How many people just gave up on running a store entirely, or have shut down a number of them? I've downsized repeatedly, and am still slacking on stocking.
     
  20. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    6,194
    Likes Received:
    12,076
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I think you are misreading. We can split and drag stacks while listing.

    The frustration is that the customer can't buy partial stacks, thus necessitating merchants putting up numerous copies of the same item, as well as relisting those repeatedly.

    If you look at the first post, the number of clicks it takes to list one item is silly. Multiply silly times countless, and you have carpel tunnel.

    You can remove the multiplication part by making it so that the end user, the customer, can buy part of the stack instead of being forced to buy the whole thing.

    Which already works on NPC vendors.
     
    Witcheypoo, Elwyn, Rentier and 2 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.