Useless Skills (Kinda)

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Cora Cuz'avich, Aug 1, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

    Messages:
    3,054
    Likes Received:
    11,752
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    This would actually be an example of a decent, straightforward poll.
    All the skills, and ask players to rate them from 1-useless to 5-must have
    Would certainly identify the ones that most people think have no point in fairly short order.

    There's a load of skills that only get leveled for attunement that would probably rate a 2 - you need it, but only for attunement.
    There's some skills (like field dressing survey) that are just funny. This I'd rate a 1.
     
    Net likes this.
  2. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    True, but at least doing so is directly useful. It might be frustrating if it's an entire tree you don't intend to use for anything except resistance, though. We have those resistance skills now, but I'm not sure how useful they are over just training up the trees, as far as effectiveness vs. cost.
     
  3. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

    Messages:
    7,944
    Likes Received:
    9,015
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Hemut
    Could you add the Ignite Weapon skill?

    This skill is actually incredibly handy at low levels because of the low HP of lower level creatures.

    But at higher level creatures it just isn’t useful anymore.
     
    Sorgin Txakal likes this.
  4. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

    Messages:
    3,054
    Likes Received:
    11,752
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Yeah, it would still give good metrics, though
    A melee char with no magic might say the resist skill is super useful and give it a 5
    A mage char who wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole would say its a 1
    Some sort of average would put it somewhere in between, but the poll should identify skills that are consistently lower i.e. everyone thinks they are useless.

    Could even ask them to give a rating and choose a reason between "Effect" and "Potency"
    I.e. I think that the passive that increases the health of summoned pets is useful, but it doesn't do enough for what it costs. So I'd say its a useful effect, but too weak to bother with after a certain point. I'd rate it Effect: 4 (pretty useful) but Potency: 1 (needs a buff). That's my personal rating. Seeing this over 100 or so responses would certainly have some patterns emerge.

    I feel same way about the refining speed-up skill. Super useful, but the effect is barely noticeable - (crafting in a basement speeds you up more than raising this skill to 120). So again I'd say effect- 5, potency 1.

    This level of clarity would prevent cases of someone rating something as useless because it simply doesn't do enough and gives extra granularity to the process.

    This would give insight on how players feel about all of the skills in clear, decisive categories. No reason same couldn't be applied to stats or other effects too if it works.
     
    Cora Cuz'avich likes this.
  5. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Will do, but I don't particularly agree. It does still damage high level (non-fiery) creatures, it just doesn't scale up, unless maybe you're a strong fire spec mage. But I sorta think that it doesn't make sense for the damage you do to scale up just because you're fighting something tougher.
     
    Anpu likes this.
  6. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Oh, yeah, the poll would still be a great idea. Didn't mean that it wouldn't, just clarifying that I didn't think leveling a skill just for attunement make sit a useless skill.
     
  7. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

    Messages:
    3,054
    Likes Received:
    11,752
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Oh yeah I got what you meant.

    But like for example - in some magic trees there's some slim pickins' to get the attunement.

    Like running a water build you have to level both summons - you can't use them both at once, and one attacks at range and heals you, and the other....well, moseys into place sometimes before the monster is dead. You need them both for attunement, but attunement's the only reason I'd put experience into ice elemental. Or something like...animal charm in moon tree.
     
  8. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    I was in a group last week or so, high-ish level players, and one of them was using animal charm, and the other charm-type glyph. So, there's one person, at least...
     
  9. Net

    Net Avatar

    Messages:
    3,727
    Likes Received:
    11,178
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Oh btw, another useless skill is Sun-skill Reveal Hidden. If you are PvP just use fire ring or meteorites, if you are PvE you will use it only for attunement.

    Well, I think you can do the math, ideally you want have the attunement and resistance skills in balance so that the next million xp you put in either one will give you the same amount of extra resistance... Honestly I wish there would be no extra resistance from attunement. And I wish that resistance skill did not lower your attunement. it really complicates the math of optimal build.
     
    OzzyOsbourne likes this.
  10. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Yeah, I mean I could do the math, but it's tricksy, and I don't care that much to try and sort it out.
     
    Net likes this.
  11. OzzyOsbourne

    OzzyOsbourne Avatar

    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    63
    -Poison weapon... there is bonus to a certain bandit piece that gives a bonus to poisons, there are daggers that give bonus, there are spears and axes that give bonus. Perhaps you are using the wrong weapons to maximize their effectiveness? Poison works fine for me. The passive is only there to extend the duration anyways. Its fine as it is imo. The immunities are fine.
    -Disabling Shot has become obsolete due to bard. Why are you still wasting your time with disabling shot? If Bard got properly nerfed as it should (psalm of stagnation) disabling shot would have its use. Those things that are immune are probably immune to prevent easy-mode and exploiting.
    -Survey skills, hell yes, completely useless and I cant believe after the extreme numerous times mentioned, nothing has been done yet...
    -Freezing/Ice Skills, BARD.
    -Ignite Weapon - stack with poison, did you forget its benefit from attack speed? bard again? Fine imo. Use it all the time.
    -Flurry, one of the best skills in the game. Especially when spec.
    -Sprint, longest lasting speed boosts in the game... has someone become obsolete with new Elixir passive increasing wolf speed potions.
    -Escape, definitely needs to scale more with lvl of skill.
    -Evasion, they changed the way dodge works. It used to take into consideration damage avoidance as a factor, now I dont think it does anymore. They changed the description of damage avoidance and forgot about this skill. Definitely needs to be fixed.
    -Light Armor spec makes dodge extremely OP, same with flurry. It doesnt need a buff. Seems like you are disregarding the fact that archers are already the most OP build in the game and just want more. Tactics is a strategy tree, if anything needs a buff, it would be the focus spec.

    My additions:
    Obedience in the taming tree.
     
  12. OzzyOsbourne

    OzzyOsbourne Avatar

    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Oh and Refresh in the taming tree, stopping at 120 brings timer to 0, no need to go further.
     
  13. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    This might fall under the umbrella of "skills we meant to do more with someday when invisible items were added to the game" rather than "skills working as intended but have no point, or can have their usefulness out-levelled."

    Either way, useless is useless, so I added it.

    (Though... how funny would it be if there actually were invisible chests all over the place, but nobody knew because they didn't bother with the skill...)
     
    ConjurerDragon, Net and Anpu like this.
  14. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    905
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Does anyone ever actually use the summoned pet skills? I have trained summoned pet health, resistance and damage up to 108 and GM summon Air elemental (with air spec) and will-o-wisp GMed and neither pet seems to serve any purpose at all besides looks.

    Will-o-wisp was kinda useful at lower levels when i was struggling with trolls, but when I run a DPS meter it never seems that the air elemental actually ever does anything.

    I think the trained summon pet damage should scale with the wisp to make its spells more effective since it doesn't do damage and whatever is going on with the air elemental I think needs to be revisited.

    I've kind of dug my feet into the ground because I really don't want to put xp into taming, but it really seems that if you want to be competitive you need to specialize in taming and then whatever skill you want to use the most and I would prefer if summoned pets were competitive in some ways with tamed ones.
     
    Net likes this.
  15. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    They're on my "B" list after I get my more useful skills up into the 120s. I like the idea of summoning undead; I was ranged/death spec when they first came out with specializations, but then it seemed every new scene involved stronger and stronger undead, so I abandoned death.

    Wisp and air elemental added.
     
  16. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    905
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Bow also gives a "bonus to crit chance for both ranged and close combat attacks" which only works on ranged so not sure if the description just needs to be updated or if there was at one point a plan for a one handed crossbow for the main hand so people could use a dagger in the other - if this skill was only meant for bows then I think the description needs to be updated, or if it was made for both and was moved to light armor and the skill in bow was replaced by something else (like attack speed), I think then it would cause people to chose between tactics and light armor spec.

    I roll air and tactics as that seems to be the most viable specs for blades and bows, and I like that there is a choice between tactics and armor spec for crit chances - so I don't want the only viable crit build to be light armor - but it would be nice to see some more hard decisions in this area.
     
  17. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Except Air/Tactics is better than Ranged/Light Armor; at least in my experience. Other than making Disabling Shot work on tougher mobs, I said nothing about wanting more archery stuff. And not everyone who wears light armor is an archer. I wear light armor, and only use the innates and one active skill (Dodge.) What I want is to look at the light armor spec and not think, "eh, pass."
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
  18. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Yeah, that is weird. I agree, probably makes more sense to be a light armor skill, if it affects melee.
     
    Sorgin Txakal likes this.
  19. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,294
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Whatever the description says, the bonus it only applied if you have a bow equipped. I suppose there are some attacks that don't use a bow but can be used with a bow equipped?
     
  20. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,294
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I absolutely hate this.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.