Seasons In SotA

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wilfred, Sep 28, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Wilfred

    Wilfred Avatar

    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Trophy Points:
    63
    -
    Some Definitions:

    New Britannia is the name of the SotA world sphere.
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/New_Britannia

    Novia is a continent in the Southern Hemisphere of New Britannia.
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Novia

    Hidden Vale is an island continent in the Southern Hemisphere of New Britannia.
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Hidden_Vale

    Mistrendur is a continent in the Southern Hemisphere (or possibly on the equator?) of New Britannia.
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Mistrendur

    Are there any other sources to verify the world name?
    I think it would make more sense if Novia was the world name and New Britannia was the continent name.
    Is Britannia a world or continent name in Ultima?

    Can the latitude and longitude of the continents and/or their relative locations be determined from the game location data?

    ----------

    In the thread linked below, there is a note that pumpkins grow better in the fall season (autumn).

    [Positive Feedback] R82 Pumpkin Harvesting and Trophies
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...k-r82-pumpkin-harvesting-and-trophies.165366/

    This reminded me that the seasons in SotA are rather odd, since Novia is in the Southern Hemisphere of New Britannia,
    but the months in which the seasons occur do not correspond to the seasonal months from Earth's Southern Hemisphere.

    I really started to notice that Novia is in the Southern Hemisphere when I started decorating the front and back yards on my lot.

    I live in the Northern Hemisphere on Earth, so it took me a while to get used to the fact that the midday sun shines from the north in SotA, instead of from the south.

    The direction of the sunshine in the Southern Hemisphere makes a big difference when decorating outdoors,
    because the areas in sunshine and the areas in shadow at midday are the opposite of what I am used to from living in the Northern Hemisphere.

    ----------

    Seasons in Novia:

    - Spring is April 1 through June 28
    - Summer is July 1 through September 28
    - Autumn is October 1 through December 28
    - Winter is January 1 through March 28

    All months in SotA are 28 days long.
    Each day in SotA is equal to one hour on Earth.
    Seasons in SotA are 84 days, which is equal to 3.5 days on Earth.

    Novia is in the Southern Hemisphere of New Britannia, but the months in which the seasons occur are about the same as the months in which the seasons occur in the Northern Hemisphere on Earth.

    So the months in which the seasons of New Britannia occur are shifted by about six months relative to Earth.

    Since the months are shifted, it is easy for players from the Northern Hemisphere of Earth to understand which months correspond to which seasons in the Southern Hemisphere of New Britannia.

    But it is not intuitive to realize that the continents of Novia, Hidden Vale, and Mistrendur are in the Southern Hemisphere of New Britannia.

    And it may be rather confusing if continents are added to the Northern Hemisphere of New Britannia,
    because seasons in the Northern Hemisphere of New Britannia would occur during about the same months as seasons in the Southern Hemisphere on Earth.

    Are any Northern Hemisphere continents planned for SotA in the future?

    ----------

    We need a webpage with a SotA time and date calculator that includes:

    (Listed in the same order as in game)
    - Day of the week (Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday Saturday)
    - Month and Date (day of the month)
    - Season, may depend on continent (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter)
    - Year PC (Post Cataclysm) or BC? (Before Cataclysm)
    - Time of day (Dawn, Morning, Midday, Afternoon, Dusk, Evening, Midnight, Late Night)
    - Moon Phase (New Moon, Waxing Crescent, First Quarter, Waxing Gibbous, Full Moon, Waning Gibbous, Third Quarter, Waning Crescent)
    - Weather history, if there is a record of the game data (Clear, Light Clouds, Heavy Clouds, Light Precipitation, Storm, Etc.)
    - Wind history, if there is a record of the game data (Calm, Light Winds, Heavy Winds, Etc.)

    - Status of the celestial bodies orbiting New Britannia
    - Status of the constellations
    - Lunar Rift status (with notes on how it is calculated)
    - Lost Vale status (with notes on how it is calculated)
    - Cabalist Sieges status (with notes on how it is calculated)
    - Aether Comet status (with notes on how it is calculated)

    - Any other useful information that changes over time, such as best pumpkin growing season.

    - The corresponding New Britannian Time (NBT), also known as Central Standard Time (CST).

    - The ability to input any NBT time and date (past, present, or future) and see the corresponding SotA time and date, along with the status of all the above information at that time.
    - The ability to input any SotA time and date (past, present, or future) and see the corresponding NBT time and date, along with the status of all the above information at that time.

    ----------

    References:

    Seasons: Meteorological and Astronomical
    https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/aboutseasons.html

    What Are Longitudes and Latitudes?
    https://www.timeanddate.com/geography/longitude-latitude.html

    New Britannian Time
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Community:New_Britannian_Time

    New Britannian Calendar
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/New_Britannian_Calendar

    Astronomy
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Astronomy

    Daedalus (the shattered moon)
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Daedalus

    Lunar Rift
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Lunar_Rift

    Lost Vale
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Lost_Vale

    Town Sieges (Cabalist Sieges)
    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Town_Sieges

    Aether Comet
    https://www.sotawiki.net/sota/Aether_Comet

    Soyuz - The Southern Star
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/soyuz-the-southern-star.87472/

    Mistrendur Climate, since Novia is in the Southern Hemisphere?
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...e-novia-is-in-the-southern-hemisphere.162273/

    ----------

    @Bowen Bloodgood, and anyone else, Please feel free to chime in with any corrections, clarifications, or additions to this post.

    ----------
     
  2. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    Possibly some discussions during kickstarter. Though I don't recall anything particularly definitive. Just remember we were talking about it at some point.

    I would submit it's not possible for Mistrendur to be on the equator or anywhere near it giving the constant cold. If anything, I might suggest the world's orientation is flipped N/S. The farther north you go it's gets colder, but the path of the sun says southern hemisphere as it travels across the northern sky. It should be getting warmer as you go north.

    Basically synonymous. It gets pretty funky. Common sense would dictate that all the lands from Ultima I would still exist in the world but in IV-VI, the one continent is all there is with access to the other 3 being magically cut off. In VII, one continent becomes are small island and another requires magical transport to access with one continent still missing. UO might suggest the final continent is still out there somewhere.

    Edit: In retrospect, I don't think an actual world name is ever actually given in the series? We can theorize the world takes the name of the continent as only the one continent is known to exist. Who cares what the people on the other continents think, they're not in the game so there! :p They're probably doing the same thing anyway..

    It's probable that the sun's path through the north is an error. The final bug in the sky that I failed to catch back in the day. :) Yes I accept partial responsibility for that one.. as I reported everything else that was wrong with the sky and they fixed it. :) I really didn't pay any attention to where the sun was going.. Constellation travelling in the wrong direction.. check.. The fact that the sun stopped for 5 full minutes every day at 'noon'... check.. that it was in the wrong part of the sky... ummm.... whoops.. :)

    You think it's too late to fix? :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    Time Lord, Wilfred, Anpu and 2 others like this.
  3. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    905
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Well, as Lord British is the one in power, he can name the world and things whatever he wants, regardless of what cultures existed before his rule - this has always been the way of British rule ;)

    That would be an interesting spin, if SotA is an allegory for European extermination of non-whites/christians and the ebon cult represents the pagans and various cultures that are just struggling to survive as their land was taken over. This could also explain why there are no snakes in Novia. :D

    (Mostly) Joking aside though, I thought Elysium is its own continent? Part of why I settled there, I don't take kindly to imperial rule and the "lord" of Xenos is... welcome to his title. :cool:




    The world name of "New Britannia" would imply that there is either an older name for the world that is no longer in use, or Lord British came from somewhere else and New Britannia only applies to his kingdom.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    FrostII likes this.
  4. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    And yet, Lord British's new castle scene in Mistrendur is populated by tropical palms...

    Isn't that correct? Novia is in the southern hemisphere, the sun is supposed to be in the north.
     
    Wilfred likes this.
  5. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Another issue is the images of the moon phases on the moongate lunar rift stones. The images match the progression in the northern hemisphere, not the southern. They should be flipped, the opposite side of the moon is lit in each hemisphere. Well, the same side is lit, but it's upside down in the other hemisphere. Or rightside up, depending on what your normal is.
     
    Wilfred, Anpu and Bowen Bloodgood like this.
  6. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    True but it's a clear contradiction with the world's seasons and climate. How is it that a lot of Mistreudur is covered in snow and ice if it's closer to the equator than Ardoris which has a much warmer climate?
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  7. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    905
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Many royal families have made multiple castles as "vacation homes".

    Bolivia, Peru, Argentina and Chile are all well known for snowfall and you get snow in the mountains of Columbia year around which is literally on the equator. Snow is a function of elevation, not latitude - we have no points of reference for the scale of any of these continents.
     
    Wilfred, Anpu and Bowen Bloodgood like this.
  8. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    Around the kickstarter days I had made a comment about how "New Britannia" implied SotA was basically a continuation of Ultima.. I believe I used somewhat different phrasing than that but they has been stressing that SotA was a new franchise etc... and I was pointing out that in order for it to be "New" Britannia there had to have been an old Britannia. Richard responded with a like as I recall.
     
  9. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    Point. :) Though they could perhaps add some lore to support that.
     
    Time Lord, Wilfred and Sorgin Txakal like this.
  10. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Maybe. But if you look at it on the map, it'd be hard to argue it's much above sea level...
     
  11. Tazar

    Tazar Avatar

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    1,818
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dallas Texas
    If I remember right, it was the Intro to UO that talked about the original world being "Sosaria" and it was shattered with the Gem of Immortality in Ultima I. This left the main continent (Trammel/Felucca) to be called "New Britannia". Does that tie in here directly? I assume so.

     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    Time Lord likes this.
  12. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Not exactly. Sosaria was broken into smaller bits, one of which was Brittania. Brittania was smashed up by the Guardian, and what was left is New Brittania. Or Novia. Or whatever.

    I'm sure I'm about to be corrected.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    905
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Well, what I said was a gross over-simplification. I'm not a meteorologist and am apt to explain things I watched in documentaries wrong. When dealing with fluid dynamic, "pressure" is the primary factor and things like mountains only affect the flow of fluids in the atmosphere but the elevation itself doesn't cause the cold so much as, in most cases, there exists blocks to high pressure which mountains contribute to.

    Blah blah science, TLDR: There is plenty of natural phenomena that can explain snow and glaciation in relatively low altitudes.

    How much thought was put into this by the devs vs just making a place that looked cool can be yadda yadda-ed away with anomalies in air currents caused by localized events.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    Wilfred and Cora Cuz'avich like this.
  14. Beaumaris

    Beaumaris Avatar

    Messages:
    4,289
    Likes Received:
    7,415
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caladruin
    If we are unsure of our game world name this far into release, it must not have a defined name. Therefore, I name it .... Bob.
     
  15. Wilfred

    Wilfred Avatar

    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Novia is assumed to be in the southern hemisphere because the sun travels through the north.
    If the sun was changed to travel through the southern sky, that would mean that Novia is in the northern hemisphere.
     
    Bowen Bloodgood likes this.
  16. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    The Lands of Lord British (U1) was also Sosaria (U3) and then became Britannia (U4+).. though now that I'm thinking about it.. Sosaria would've been the original world name. It just gets hazy with Ultima III and the continent rename in Ultima IV. "New" Britannia doesn't come about until SotA. Being.. what? 800 years after the events of Ultima VII give or take. I think 800 was the time between celestial alignments. I have a whole timeline posted somewhere. :)
     
    Wilfred and Time Lord like this.
  17. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,289
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    Novia is actually based on the Ultima III Sosaria map. The problem here really is the lack of continuity between Ultima III and IV. The Lands of Lord British map changes in Ultima IV to what we know as Britannia, and correct that is what gets 'smashed up by the Guardian'. No (good) lore can explain the shift back to the Sosaria map, except rights to that map would not be owned by *cough* *ehem*. Except now we're back to multiple land masses in SotA it adds a little more confusion.

    So how about a rough timeline..

    Ultima I - world of Sosaria has 4 continents. Lands of Lord British, Lands of Danger and Despair (later to become the Serpent Isle), the continent of Ambrosia (later to be reduced to an island in Ultima VII) and the Lands of the Feudal Lords.
    Ultima III - Only the Lands of Lord British are known to remain.. the continent becomes known as Sosaria as the only confirmed land mass.
    Ultima IV - Sosaria is remade (map and all) and renamed Britannia.
    Ultima VII - Ambrosia rediscovered as an island, Danger and Despair rediscovered as Serpent Isle. Celestial alignment occurs.
    Ultima IX - Guardian 'smashes' Britannia, moons are shifted around their orbits. First by the blackrock pillars.. then by Lord British who moves them into position for the Armageddon ritual.
    Pre-SotA cataclysm - during a celestial alignment the moons collide. (Apparently SOMEONE didn't put them back in their proper places!)
    SotA - Back to the Sosaria map renamed Novia (Isle of Fire is now 'upside down' aka Elysium) in the world of 'New' Britannia.

    So I think the best argument to be made is the confusion derives from the time period where there is only 1 known continent and the name of the continent and world become synonymous. And I don't mean just culturally in the game world, but also in future development. However, the world name remained technically Sosaria as per Ultima I when all 4 continents were accessible.

    The UO intro reference also only really applies to the Lands of Lord British as it makes no mention of anywhere else.

    At least that's my take. The world name is officially "New Britannia" but it probably SHOULD be "New Sosaria" :) But that's what happens when you let Lord British rule. ;) Worlds get misnamed, gargoyles get destroyed, cats and dogs living together...
     
    Wilfred and Time Lord like this.
  18. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    8,336
    Likes Received:
    28,405
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~

    ~Time Weighs In~o_O with a more modernistic view...

    I would say that this all depends on what we call a "time line", as the arrow of time seems to be more backward than it is forward when grasping how we always come from a "modern world", onto planets which have more in common with history than they do with any more modernized worlds.

    I would say that the arrow of time must be bent in order to accommodate such strange/magical constant occurrences or worldly encounters. It is in this way, I believe we have come full circle, back to the "first world", which is now slightly different than even it was before, the tiny world of "Rytabul"...
    http://oev.hilands.com/books.php?id=25&img=1
    ... from the tale in the "Ultima Online" book, "The Bold Stranger", which first appeared in the beginnings of Ultima Online and never before. I think this important because it was before "The Guardian in the form of EA Games", began turning Ultima's development team away from the original views of Lord British, which SOTA is now in the spirit of, now fulfilling without distraction. SOTA is Lord British, and the team's Opus of what Ultima was/is best known for from it's history's entirety. In this way, SOTA completes the circle of creation, and it's bent and shattered arrow of time's return to it's "Origins" (another corporate name of the Guardian)... yet Origins is still uninterested in buying our SOTA, so Chris purchased our game, and thus he is now our Guardian.

    @Chris is the Guardian o_O!
    [​IMG]
    Rytabul was our first world ...
    and we have come full circle ...
    :eek:
    "Now where's my pants" o_O?

    ~Time Lord~:D

     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  19. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Not trying to be mean, but... Yes, that is obvious. Bowen was saying it might be a mistake, but if Novia is in the southern hemisphere, it is not a mistake, which was my point.

    Regardless, there's evidence for both. The sun passes through the north. The moon images on the lunar stones show a northern hemisphere progression. There's others, but they don't leap to mind at the moment. I'm sure once I get far enough along on my Novia orrery that it becomes a huge hassle to change it, @Sannio or somebody will appear and say it's the other way, because that's how my luck rolls.
     
    Wilfred likes this.
  20. Wilfred

    Wilfred Avatar

    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Trophy Points:
    63
    -
    I did some digging and confirmed:

    "New Britannia" is the world name.
    "Novia" is the continent name.

    ----------

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/map-of-new-britannia.3731/#post-65592

    smack, Oct 28, 2013

    Snippet from this post in the Video Transcriptions thread.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/some-video-transcriptions.3443/#post-65244

    Shroud of the Avatar Story Hour with Richard and Tracy
    Streamed live on Apr 30, 2013
    - starting at about 0:25:05


    GD (Gina Dionne, aka FireLotus):
    I love that you guys are teases. Our next question comes from True Nomad. He wants to know the name of this new world we will be partaking in is called.

    RG (Richard Garriott, aka Lord British):
    You know, it's funny he should ask that today because today is the day I'm willing to give the answer. And I've struggled with the answer to that question for a long time and you may be underwhelmed by the profoundness of the answer because it's so obvious, direct, it's appropriate I would say. I debated on whether we needed to come up with a completely new name for a completely new world, but I think that New Britannia is really the way it needs to be and must be.
    And so New Britannia is the name of the larger world that you will see over time. That is not the name of the continent, in particular the islands and continent that you start play on. Which is still something that we're not as quite settled with. But I really think it has to be New Britannia. I think you know if it's a world founded by Lord British, that the world being called New Britannia is a must.

    ----------

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=30888

    Update of the Avatar #45 – 10/25/13: Unity Scene Jam #3 Winners, Story Sneak Peek, City Basements, Wizard Tower, Baron 3 Pledge, and More!
    October 25, 2013

    Story Sneak Peek

    Welcome again, traveller. I am Arabella, and I have been sent to guide you…

    Earlier, I described to you the choice you face initially; which path to take in your journey into the lands of New Britannia. Now, I will endeavor to shine some light on those choices, and the impact upon you and those you will meet. The first, your possible pathways among the seekers of Truth.

    Among the truths you will learn is that much of our knowledge of the land of New Britannia is lost to the ages. The survivors of the Cataclysm four centuries past have settled in the land we call “Novia”, a large island which, while bearing the scars of that time, still harbors enough life to support our people.

    ----------

    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Puzzle_Map

    Puzzle Map

    This Shroud of the Avatar Puzzle Map was done by LinkofHyrule using the puzzle pieces from the Update of the Avatar releases.

    The top of the map reads: "New Britannia, Island of Novia"

    The first six map pieces were revealed in this update:

    Update of the Avatar #47 – 11/08/13: Scene Jam IV Winners, Story Sneak Peek & Map Reveal, Early Access Release Schedule, and the Baron Home!
    November 8, 2013
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=31420

    The final map piece was revealed in this update:

    Epic Update of the Avatar #76 – 2014.06.06: R6 Re-Opens, 10% Pledge Bonus, New Pledges & Rewards, Row Lots, Stretch Goal Store!
    June 6, 2014
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=40866

    ----------

    The full map was revealed here:

    Update of the Avatar #78 – 2014.06.20: SotA Best Indie MMO, DnD1 Winners, RTX, R8 Prizes, World Map, Puzzle Box, Pack Animals, Metropolis, and More!
    June 20, 2014
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=41386

    The Map of New Britannia

    Over the past seven months, many of you have painstakingly, and patiently, crafted the world map of New Britannia from the puzzle pieces we would reveal each week. The last puzzle piece was recently revealed, and today, for the first time publicly, we’re revealing the finished world map (without all the puzzle lines)! Enjoy!

    ----------

    This page on SotA Wiki was a huge help in my research:

    https://sotawiki.net/sota/Avatar's_Update

    Avatar's Update

    This archive lists the news items that appeared at the Shroud of the Avatar News section on the main page of SotA Wiki, in descending order.

    ----------
     
    Time Lord likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.