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[SOTA-70975] Elemental/Magic Resistance balancing for PVE

Discussion in 'Combat, Skills & Magic' started by Gia2, Nov 18, 2022.

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  1. Gia2

    Gia2 Avatar

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    11/18/2022 21:06
    Title: warding and probably the entire resists still dont work....
    Reproduction Rate: 100%
    Blocker?
    Details: Players that don't have warding (fire warding, tactics warding, etc.) take FAR less damage than I do in PVE or from sources (lava for instance 25-50 compared to my 520-1005). They have no warding. I have full warding (fire proof 112, fire warding 110, tactics magic warding 120, fire warding weapons, chest, obsidian plate, obsidian bands, epic warlock, etc.). There is no reason why I should be taking any more damage than others let alone 20x. I believe this is also an issue with other mobs magic attacks (the lightning from the Breach lightning boss crits me for 1400+ while others get hit for far less). I believe something in the warding system is broken.
    Steps to Reproduce: Check the same Enviro dmg with or without the Tactic MagicWarding and ther other wardings
    User Specs:
    OS: Windows 10 (10.0.0) 64bit
    CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600XT 6-Core Processor (12) System RAM: 32682
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 GPU RAM: 8043
    SotA.Win.64.1606.Date.11.17.22
    Area: Novia_R4_City_Desolis
    Area Display Name: Desolis
    Loc: (-162.0, 136.0, -326.4)
    Debug: Tm92aWFfUjRfQ2l0eV9EZXNvbGlzfHwoLTE2MS45NjUsIDEzNS45OTUsIC0zMjYuMzkpfCgwLCAtMC41NjMsIDAsIDAuODI2KXwtNjkuMzE2MTl8MTMuNTkzNjF8My4xNw==

    This is a fire trap in Elysium.............................................................................................................................................
    [​IMG]
     
    Gia2, Nov 18, 2022
    #1
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  2. Sara Dreygon

    Sara Dreygon Avatar

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    Aye. Would love to use tactics magic warding but still bugged since it's inception. Useful in PVP but against mobs or the environment it is borderline a death sentence.
     
    Sara Dreygon, Nov 18, 2022
    #2
  3. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    i was talking with gia on this before he posted and looking for a previous bug which i though was from you? but could not find to combine in.
     
    Alley Oop, Nov 18, 2022
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  4. Anpu

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    I posted one on environmental damage having no effect whatsoever with resistance or warding. I believe I still have all the logs of testing steam, cold and fire (lava) damage.

    I can provide any actual numbers if needed easily. It still does nothing.

    I can’t find the thread either…
     
    Anpu, Nov 18, 2022
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  5. Gia2

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    Gia2, Nov 20, 2022
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  6. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    ah, i don't think those were supposed to be merged. it's likely warding not affecting certain environmental damage is a different bug than the tactics warding skill specifically having an outsized and incorrect effect.
     
    Alley Oop, Nov 22, 2022
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  7. Anpu

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    If we look at the Tactics Magic Warding skill, this skill only raises Magic Resistance and then lowers attunement to all magic trees.

    Raising this skill would do nothing at all to reduce environmental damage at all. It doesn’t raise Earth, Water, Fire and Air resistance.

    This would be my understanding.
     
    Anpu, Nov 22, 2022
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  8. Gia2

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    [​IMG]
    Nope. It does raise Earth, Water, Fire and Air resistance and it does reduce the attunment therefore.

    My 99% guess is that there are some orphan enviromental/ nps skills and such that still relies on the old resistance method, where Resistance=ATT/2

    Now Attunments are super negative for Tanks with the wardings. I suppose the old orphaned formula does expect a consistently high attunment and when it comes to new tanks that have negative att values the damage get multiplied by bases of tens.
    The dmg formula get crazy simply because of this.

    ex.
    Tank old behaviour
    Att 100
    Res Att/2 = 50
    hypotetical fire trap dmg=3
    3 * 50 = OK
    ½*ATT*FIRE TRAP = OK

    Tank new behaviour when it faces the corrupt formula
    Att -100
    Res +200
    Hyp fire trap dmg =3
    3*-100 = NOT OK
    ½*ATT*FIRE TRAP = BOOM
     
    Gia2, Nov 22, 2022
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  9. Anpu

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    I vaguely recall discussing this with someone a while back, and their own testing (which I haven’t done yet) was that high Attunement was the only thing that would resist environmental damage. Such as high fire Attunement, less fire damage.

    Resistance doesn’t seem to do anything at all for environmental damage. Only Attunement will. Note that is tricky to test.
     
    Anpu, Nov 22, 2022
    #9
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  10. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I'm currently trying to get into lava in oracle colossus having all skill at 200 and im taking about 20 damage a hit. All skill at 1 im getting 100 damage a hit. The resistance does seem to work, the more attunement im getting with my gear, the more im resisting. Maybe its specific to some location? Can you tell me where you are seeing this exactly, which trap or lava.

    I do know some monster have physical damage instead of actual elemental damage which could make it look like resistance isnt working (like monster throwing a fireball, most of the time its physical). Probably the same thing for some traps.
     
    DavidDC, Nov 23, 2022
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  11. Anpu

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    I specifically tested the cold damage from the mirror in Highvale Outskirts, Troll’s Bridge. And steam damage from the water area In Sunless Barrens.

    I'm not seeing this doing anything with -6.6 Water Resistance vs 83.4 Water Resistance

    -6.6 Water Resistance == 483 damage / 30 == 16.1
    83.4 Water Resistance == 632 damage /30 == 21.06

    04/29/2021 22:10
    Title:
    Reproduction Rate:
    Blocker?
    Details:
    Steps to Reproduce:
    User Specs:
    OS: Windows 10 (10.0.0) 64bit
    CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 0 @ 3.60GHz (8) System RAM: 16303
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 GPU RAM: 8079
    SotA.QA.Win.64.1181.Date.04.28.21
    Area: RandomEncounter_Alpine01_Road/Troll
    Area Display Name: Troll's Bridge
    Loc: (48.3, 61.3, 36.1)
    Debug: UmFuZG9tRW5jb3VudGVyX0FscGluZTAxX1JvYWR8VHJvbGx8KDQ4LjI5OCwgNjEuMjkyLCAzNi4xNDgpfCgwLCAtMC45NDksIDAsIDAuMzE3KXwtMTIzMS4yMjV8MzAuNDIwOTV8MTg=
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...od-warding-increases-dmg.166049/#post-1315776
     
    Anpu, Nov 23, 2022
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  12. Gia2

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    The Fall Mushroom Rooms Trap --> 250 to 600 per tick with 300 Res
    The Fall Liches Fireball
    The Breach Bosses and elementals
    Elysium Mines Fire Traps --> 200 Res give 50-70 ticks - 300 Res give 90 110 ticks
    Whisp me up if u want live tests
     
    Gia2, Nov 23, 2022
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  13. Gia2

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    @DavidDC Oracle Colossus Lava. 300 Resistance - from 200 to 300 tick
     
    Gia2, Nov 23, 2022
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  14. Gia2

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    Careful when you test it. While raising resistances, the attunments become negative, at least -100
     
    Gia2, Nov 23, 2022
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  15. Gia2

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    Solace Bridge Outskirts Test

    Char 1: Lev 100. Att 0 . Res 0
    Char 2: Lev 145. Att -125 Res 275,97

     
    Gia2, Dec 1, 2022
    #15
  16. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I just looked at that fire pit, it take damage depending of your health to scale with player health. Thats why it seem higher damage with your other character.
    I wanted to make trap like this too but i guess ill try to find another way to not confuse everyone ;p
     
    DavidDC, Dec 2, 2022
    #16
  17. Gia2

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    Alistair: Level 150 Fire Res 175 / Fire Att -14.8
    Gia: Lev 146 249 Fire Res 250 / Fire Att -125

     
    Gia2, Dec 2, 2022
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  18. amarious

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    @DavidDC
    So, from my understanding the whole point of the innate skill, 'Magic Warding' in the Tactics tree, is to lower how effective you are at casting magic and to increase your resistance to magic (take less damage from). But it seems that low attunement overrides magic resistance in PvE.
     
    amarious, Dec 2, 2022
    #18
  19. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    You have -125 fire attunment on that sheet. Considering 2 attunement give 1 resistance, that mean your current resistance is at -250. Also that script you are using is a script i made 2 year ago and could have its own bugs. I'd rather see the skill panel directly.

    The first fire you have showed was a script that took off damage based on health, so resistance is not taken in count.
    Second damage from lava is a 100-200 damage with some other math im not sure to quite understand since its linked to variable i never seen before, still trying to figure out whats going on here.
    But what does this mean, math can be broken in certain place. Doesnt mean its the resistance skill itself that is broke or math related to that, its the math done with those objects that is wrong, which doesnt imply any resistance.
    Thats why i asked for what behavior or where it seemed wrong.

    To anwser your 2 deleted message, i never said its working as intended. But i can't fix something that work (the resistance itself). I can fix those other place thought. Just keep bringing where its being weird and ill find out what need to get fixed.

    For those 2 place that have been reported so far, ill figure out a way to fix the damage and make it work with resistance.
     
    DavidDC, Dec 5, 2022
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  20. Gia2

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    Uhm, I’m saying what also sara reported 2 years ago.

    Every single mob in the game does more magical damage to resistance based character.

    Your mod is old but it shows the same resistances as OCX does and the number there are correct, it’s fool to say otherwise .

    Regardibg all the exception in the game, we players cannot see which ancient code has been put in place.
    We just see every mob spell delivering more damage instead of less to tank based builds, so the tooltip is wrong or the mechanic is wrong.
    Any enviromental damage as showned beso it’s not health based or lava only.
    At this point you have all the data to reproduce so i will conclude my report here
     
    Gia2, Dec 5, 2022
    #20
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