Let's Talk Bitcoin: Interview with Richard Garriott

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by smack, Feb 22, 2014.

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  1. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    In 30 years if the world is using bitcoins in any type of meaningful way, I will concede to you that my skepticism was wrong. :)

    As for SotA, I will be surprised if they accept bitcoins. But I wouldn't bet against it.
     
  2. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    A bet would put some skin in the game, otherwise we are just chest thumping. If the concept is so horrible then surely you would be willing to bet against it?

    We could make it clearly defined such that even if SOTA accepts Bitcoin it must meet other criteria which deem it to be successful and worth the risk. Hence my (rough) suggested term structure. ;-)
     
  3. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    I have no problem with chest thumping. In the end you're either right or you're wrong. Betting doesn't make it go one way or the other.
     
  4. Akeashar

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    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-hoard-seized-from-the-silk-road-9067286.html

    http://nypost.com/2014/01/28/feds-will-sell-silk-roads-bitcoins-to-retain-value/

    It raised my eyebrows when I first read about it. We'll see how it pans out.
     
  5. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    When you bet money on some outcome the risk comes much more acutely into focus. People are happy to beat their chest and talk BS until you ask them to put down some risk. The defining case in point is Paul Krugman. Zero skin in the game and makes some huge claims. Putting skin the game forces you to be honest about your understanding on a topic. I wouldn't be happy betting money on the NBA or NHL because I know almost nothing about it.
     
  6. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    It may be true then, but it still isn't 100% clear that they have access to the wallets. Having the servers isn't enough. Claiming to have access isn't enough either.

    Signing a message (a transaction) is what it takes. Until that happens there is still room for doubt. ;-)

    Edit:
    Closest I've found is this:
    http://nypost.com/2014/02/14/feds-lose-31-million-on-bitcoin-stash/

    Which suggests they will cash out soon. That would be the proof.


    My point on forfeiture being that the coins don't live on the server of Silk Road, nor on any other single device. It just doesn't work like that. In order to sell one needs access to the private key.
     
  7. HoustonDragon

    HoustonDragon Avatar

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    Possession is often considered 9/10ths of the law. While I agree that "confiscating" digital property is a Pandora's Box of its own, it certainly doesn't change the circumstances that while the accused individual is being prosecuted for other reasons, his "wallet" and any potential access to those funds are in fact kept in the hands of law enforcement, and are not available for circulation at this time.

    Again, my largest concern is less about the ultimate success and availability of Bitcoins as an alternate currency; it is simply how current events and instabilities would potentially affect the future of SotA itself. From a business standpoint, until there are further financial protections, and both wider regulations and recognition from economic institutions, it remains a very risky market to support, especially given the availability of other more secured methods.

    I also stand by my earlier comment regarding the illicit nature of many transactions. Their supporters would find more approval as an accepted currency, if there was less fear of being associated with that type of activity.
     
  8. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    No, that's not necessarily true.

    The decider is who has access to the private key, and who doesn't. While this guy is in jail we don't know if someone else on the outside has the private key. If he is freed then it remains to be seen if he even still has access the private key. Bitcoins are "stored" in the cloud, for lack of a better phrase, losing one local copy of your private key is only meaningful if that is a user's only access.

    I obviously can't say how he managed his private keys but it is certainly possible to have a "brain wallet" where the private key is a hash of a memorable alphanumeric string (i.e. a passphrase).

    I'll give you some due here, there is definitely a need for solid business plan. That said, California just decided that it is to be legal tender. ^_^
     
  9. Biblik

    Biblik Avatar

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    The illicit nature of the transaction sounds to me like you aren't learned in the art of the BitCoin. Just because some rapscallions are using it in nefarious ways doesn't mean everyone is. There are Tesla dealerships accepting them and plenty of other sound businesses. There are plenty of secure transactions that can take place if you use the right tools. The problem with all of those Silk Road type sites is that *they* acted as the BitCoin wallets in the transactions and weren't bullet-proof. Leave it up to the experts.
     
  10. UnseenDragon

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    Ignoring the future of BitCoins, at present they are extremely unstable from an exchange rate standpoint. I wouldn't suggest a major investment in them (and accepting as payment can be that) for a software company with a fixed target and more than I would suggest them taking another fluctuating currency/commodity as payment. That being said, I can't imagine that this would actually represent a large number of transactions.
     
  11. HoustonDragon

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    We're straying from topic slightly on this, but the amounts seized by prosectutors was hardly a minor loss if proven true, and could have further consequence on trading futures due to speculation fears.

    Also, the accused has filed a civil suit against the seizure to recover the funds, so clearly, there is more to the story than has been publicly released.

    We'll have to wait and see how global markets continue to value Bitcoins, and if they do become a commonly recognized tender. My only concern would be Portalarium suffering a large financial loss or worse, due to the unregulated and highly speculative nature of the beast. If monies are to change hands, it makes sense to use one that gives direct legal recourse to protect and recover against losses.
     
  12. Root2

    Root2 Avatar

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    Portalarium accepting bitcoins isn't as risky as as some of you seem to be portraying if they do it right. If I were them this is how I would do it to minimize risk:


    I would accept bitcoins at the averaged major exchange value minus a 10% fee. This would give you a little more security and wiggle room in a volatile market.
    Set up a automated payment system that sells bitcoins at market value on an exchange immediately after the transaction is complete. I would then cash out earnings from the exchange daily into a Portalarium bank account.


    The more quickly you move bitcoins into cash and then transfer that cash into your possession the lower your risk. If portalarium were to have this in place at nearly real time the chances of any significant loss is greatly reduced. Where retailers and businesses get into trouble is when they hold or do not cash out quickly enough. Tiger Direct for example has stated that they are holding millions of $ worth of bitcoins. Naturally this can be a very risky decision on such a volatile and insecure commodity.
     
  13. smack

    smack Avatar

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    To what extent would bitcoins be used within SotA?

    - buy digital or physical goods via the Add On Store
    - buy digital currency (e.g. gold), or even exchange between the two
    - exchange digital goods between other players only, inside or outside the game
    - becomes an additional currency, including gold, to buy/sell items with other players and NPCs
    - is the exclusive currency in SotA

    I doubt the last one will happen, but he may experiment with the Add On Store first, at least for digital goods.
     
  14. E n v y

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    Personally I see little point in using bitcoin.
     
  15. MoralCompass

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    This. Portalarium could accept bitcoin payments and have them converted to USD instantly, daily, or whatever. coinbase is one of many payment processors, and charges 1% in fees (+0.15 per ACH transfer). These fees are certainly lower than Paypal, Credit Card, or Amazon Payments, which means more money for game development. I do accept that perhaps they can't spare the development resources to integrate the payment method right now.

    Perhaps one way to have a closed monetary pool is to have the game currency backed by bitcoins or their equivalent. Eg, the whole world starts with 1 bitcoin, and all vendor transactions contribute to or come from that pool. 1gp is 1 satoshi, and each new player (or copy of the game sold) starts with 100 satoshis.

    But I really wouldn't want in-game transactions polluting the blockchain unnecessarily. Maybe they can spin-off their own sotacoin or whatever.
     
  16. haselbach

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    No offense, but you need to do more research on Bitcoin. Your analysis demonstrates several misconceptions.

    It is both a true currency and an associated payment protocol/ledger. It's robust, decentralized and frictionless. More importantly, it is borderless, which is ideal for a a game like SotA. Folks in Turkey can pay instantly and the BTC can be received instantly in the US nearly for free. The recipient can choose to keep in BTC or have instantly converted into whatever local/national fiat currency they like via service like Bitstamp or Coinbase (to avoid volatility).

    It's revolutionary.
     
  17. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    It also tends to disappear in the middle of the night, and can only be spent in very few places.

    And it may be in fact dead as of today.
     
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  18. mike11

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    I predict that it will soon be all but dead, at least as far as for ordinary day to day use.

    Once any nation begins to realise that these currencies start undermining real currencies, which are controlled, those countries will start to impose regulation and likely taxes to offset those losses.

    There is many pluses to vc that makes them a revolution but they cant replace real currencies without disrupting nations real currencies.
     
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  19. haselbach

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    Mt.Gox going under was a good thing for Bitcoin. Eliminating the inevitable bad apples that appear in any new technology is positive. Fiat value of BTC is already recovering and you can spend it at thousands and thousands of places online and locally, from Overstock.com to a coin shop in Keene, NH (just thinking about the US). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but please make it an informed one. r/bitcoin is a good subreddit to start, and there are a dozen good podcasts focused on or regularly discussing Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
     
  20. HoustonDragon

    HoustonDragon Avatar

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    I'm all for emerging alternate currencies in money market systems; I just don't want to see the game have to deal with unnecessary risks and gambles, when there's really no need for it.
     
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