Drop level system for a full skill based system

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by ilcontegis, Oct 29, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ilcontegis

    ilcontegis Avatar

    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    211
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I tried all the alpha releases and I am enjoying a lot this game especially the recent addition of the deck based combat, which is original and gives a different twist to the game.

    In the other hands I am still very confused concerning the levelling.
    Right now we gather experience points which make our level to increase and at each level we get some skill points to be used. I find this unrealistic, because I can raise archery skills by fighting with a sword.

    I would like to see a full skill based system (similar to UO) in which there is no level, but each skill has a progression (o to 100). In this way if I use a sword I would raise my sword skill and at certain levels of my skill I would unlock certain abilities.

    I believe that a skill based system would be more realistic and would best suit this type of game.
    My 2 cent.
    Thank you
     
  2. reesian

    reesian Avatar

    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    181
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I thought this game was going to be different. This leveling system is the same ol' crap we always see nowadays. Please use skill based system like in UO. A carpenter should raise carpentry skills by making carpentry items. AND NO RESPECING. If I wanted to play WoW I would have.
     
  3. Caradin

    Caradin Avatar

    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    I also wish for a skill based system even if Im ok with the current system. Biggest issue for me is for example that by swinging my blade I can become a mage and learn to summon elementals.
    I think they could implement a skill based system where we would learn the current skills along the way. At sword 10 points you would get the first sword skill to be used in the deck building and so on. Not sure how multiple copies of the same skill for the deck should be handled...
     
    blaquerogue, paulen, mike11 and 7 others like this.
  4. Kvothe Kingkiller

    Kvothe Kingkiller Avatar

    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    773
    Trophy Points:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    This is my opinion (and it is just an 'opinion'). The skill system as of now is a general test, as we are still in pre-alpha and mechanics are still being 'created', let alone 'finalized' (we also still dont even have half of the current skills implemented in game yet). If the coding/scripting works properly on a broad scale, we move on to individual skill focus. I believe that farther on down the development line, using a 2h sword wont give you 'general' points, but rather 2h points, 'bow' use gives you 'bow' points, and so on and so forth. Anyway, that is what i hope will happen given the common sense value, and the general opinion of the majority of players regarding skill increase.
     
    paulen, licemeat and Kvow [MGT] like this.
  5. Margard

    Margard Avatar

    Messages:
    1,595
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The isthmus of Podo and Kodo
    The crafting system - leveling wise is set apart from combat ...
     
  6. High Baron Asguard

    High Baron Asguard Avatar

    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Sorry no, Levels for combat skills and skill based for crafting

    Cooking should increase cooking sure but it needs to be level based for combat in order to allow people to pick the skills and spells which suit them rather than ending up tied to a single skill tree which would lead to completely uninteresting characters and completely destroy mage characters
     
    mike11, Sophi and KuBaTRiZeS like this.
  7. ilcontegis

    ilcontegis Avatar

    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    211
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I disagree with what you are saying. How having a skill based system would destroy mage characters? In UO most of characters were mages! A skill based on the contrary makes everything more logic, if you use your blade you raise your sword skill, if you make furniture you'll raise your carpentry skills, if you do enchantments you'll raise your magic skill.
    If you want to be a mage just use spells and enchantments..it's logic..

    Levels just make everything flat as you don't need to put any effort when you play (like in most of other mmorpg).
    As someone said in this post, why can I learn to summon an elemental by killing rats with my sword? This is surely something that I hope developers will look into.
     
  8. Tartness

    Tartness Avatar

    Messages:
    913
    Likes Received:
    1,514
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually I am kind of bored with both of those methods. I thought they were going to MacGyver something a bit different for us.

    Because I have been bored with the RPG games for quite some time now, I'd rather see different than effective, fun over grind, story over item content, that sort of stuff!
     
  9. draykor darkale

    draykor darkale Avatar

    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    471
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Agreed, not a massive fan of the arbitrary levelling experience ala everything coming out right now. I always enjoyed grinding skill based personally.
     
  10. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

    Messages:
    4,350
    Likes Received:
    14,680
    Trophy Points:
    153
    If they keep the leveling system then it is essential to have trainers in the game. You earn skillpoints by leveling up but you cannot spend them as you want. You have to search for a trainer of the skill you want to either learn or improve and then you have to spend the skillpoints there. This would be realistic. This way you would not magically learn how to cast a fireball by whacking at enemies with your sword.
     
  11. KuBaTRiZeS

    KuBaTRiZeS Avatar

    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    3,395
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spain
    I'd prefer a skill gain system vs level system, but they're in fact pretty similar; the former is just a reduction of the unit rewarded and a minimal change on the way you earn it; Skill system will give you a skill when you "succeed" in some internal roll, needing some rolls to be done. Level system will give you 8 skill points everytime you earn a certain amount of experience (currently only gave by mobs, quests will come after i think). Looking at them, they're not that different to me.

    I'm with @AvatarAcid on this. Why not try to find a different way of gaining skill points? I prefer the skill point as the unit of reward since is small, and it makes me perceive leveling as something more progressive (also, how could i forget the rush and happiness of seeing two 0,1% in the same minute? I'd like to feel that again).
     
    Zantul and Lord Baldrith like this.
  12. Galamar

    Galamar Avatar

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tamriel, Nirn
    I agree! Drop the leveling system and go with skill based! That is how I assumed the game was going to be based on how LB described the game..
     
  13. KuBaTRiZeS

    KuBaTRiZeS Avatar

    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    3,395
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spain
    I kept thinking about this "Alternative experience concepts". I just came with an idea as an alternative way to give combat experience; Experience by performance.

    For this idea i'm taking the skill gain model, which is the one i'd love. I assume every time you perform a certain deed you have a %chance of gaining a skill point. If you don't, your probability to gain a skill next time you perform that deed will be higher until you have a skill gain. That moment, your chance to skill gain resets and is recalculated for your current skill points.

    Mathematically you can ponder the average amount of resources and time a player needs to invest to defeat any enemy. The difference between the resources you actually spent and that number could be done as a modifier to your "skill win roll", meaning if you defeated a challenging enemy skillfully without losing much life or focus and in a reasonable amount of time, the chance of you having a skill point gain is going to rise. If you don't get a skill gain, a fraction of that performance factor will stay, and will be added to your performance factor for the next combat.

    That way, a player whose performance is better will have better chances of skill gain, against the player who is not performing well. I think it's a good way of rewarding skilled combat, and not just staying in front of an enemy changing hits.

    So... what do you think?
     
    Destroying Angel and Net like this.
  14. Violation Clauth

    Violation Clauth Avatar

    Messages:
    3,247
    Likes Received:
    7,594
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    They do... this isn't wow it's a new system that hybrids... Adventuring skills (combat/magic) gain on their own and crafting skills gain on their own. Hope that helps! :)

    Also, respeccing isn't going to be like it currently is in the RC1
     
    fantalio likes this.
  15. dsmwookie

    dsmwookie Avatar

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham, Alabama
    So what is it going to be like?
     
  16. ilcontegis

    ilcontegis Avatar

    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    211
    Trophy Points:
    18
    This is very confusing for me, why would SotA be 50% skill based and 50% level based? What's the point of making such a system?
    I really hope in 100% skill based system...
     
    Lord Baldrith likes this.
  17. Schroedinger's cat lives

    Schroedinger's cat lives Avatar

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    8
    to quote
    Sir Asguard

    "Sorry no, Levels for combat skills and skill based for crafting

    Cooking should increase cooking sure but it needs to be level based for combat in order to allow people to pick the skills and spells which suit them rather than ending up tied to a single skill tree which would lead to completely uninteresting characters and completely destroy mage character"

    there is a solution to this:
    We can keep leveling with xp and still have it to where you gain in a certain skill by using that skill.
    When you level up you should gain in stats, health , focus and gain points to place in your talent tree to keep your mage/warrior/thief, kind of unique..
    but, you should also have to use the skill you want to level up to be good at it.

    I like having the talent trees, but to level a skill, I think that you should have to use that skill. If you spend your time in game as a mage, you shouldn't be able to pick up a sword and swing it like a master swordsman, or you shouldn't be able to cast top level spells when you leveled up as a warrior, and you shouldn't be able to talk to an npc or hit a menu to change from magic to melee and be a master at it.

    The developers are very talented. I am sure they can find the "sweet spot"
    between the two and merge them to make a very awesome and unique game.
     
    smack, Espada and KuBaTRiZeS like this.
  18. reezer

    reezer Avatar

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I agree. The presence of levels were maybe the biggest disappoint in the whole game. Maybe they could be changed or at least made much less relevant. I am not a huge fan of skill trees either, but I think they'd would work if it was a bit like how the Magery Skill in Ultima Online affected the kind of spells you could cast.

    In the combination with the deck skill maybe using for example your sword to increase swordsmanship could unlock a skill to be added to your deck and as you progress levels of these skills increase and new skills can be selected for the deck.
     
    Nhili Dragon and Lord Baldrith like this.
  19. High Baron Asguard

    High Baron Asguard Avatar

    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    125
    sounds like your thinking something like skyrims leveling system
     
  20. Schroedinger's cat lives

    Schroedinger's cat lives Avatar

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Hmm.. wasn't thinking about skyrim when those ramblings went threw my brain.. but.. now that I think about it.. I guess it is a little like morrowind. I was trying to find a way to keep it more like UO skill gains and still make the people who want xp and levels to be happy.. I am a real big fan of the "use a skill to gain in the skill" but at the end of the day it isn't my decision all I can do is suggest and hope they see things the way I do.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.