The Combat System....

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Tiberius Theron, Mar 16, 2015.

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  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

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    While you make an excellent point about taking consumables out of the deck etc, the time is ticking by. Should they spend more time trying to fix this system, or should they drop it an use a traditional system that already takes your point into consideration?
     
  2. Isaiah

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    Don't bother with him personally. it will only result in moderation and the thread getting closed.

    While I don't agree with everything this guy is saying, there is usually one gem in the midst of a conversation with somebody who is trying to make a point.

    Clearly there are plenty of people who do not like this system. Should we continue to shut our eyes and ears to ignore them. We've been saying wait, hold on, it's still just pre-alpha... what will our excuse be a year from now when people are still complaining about this system?

    So to just say this system is great just because YOU like it, doesn't mean it is great in the eyes of everybody. The test of it being a good system ought to be taking into account the opinions of all the people, and also just how passionate are those who are for it vs those who are against it.

    So please don't try to discredit that guy by claiming he is a troll or something. His opinion about the system is just as valid as yours. Also because we believe in the game it gives us motive to defend it. This system is definitely debatable.
     
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  3. captbloody

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    Do we actually think this game will be viable and bring in new players with this current system? I personally do not and think that if left in its current state will be the death of this game within the first year or so. We wont get new players and the frustrated players will stop giving money and stop playing.

    I for one have stopped my pledge as im not sure I want to continue to play the game with the current combat system but I have not lost all hope yet.
     
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  4. E n v y

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    My view is as follows:

    UO System > Shroud System > WoW System

    Its the ability to have options and to be creative that makes combat interesting. I don't believe the traditional is that great and is why I stuck with UO for the last 15+ years rather than moving to something more visually appealing. The combat system in SotA doesn't resolve all the issues, but it does make it a little more interesting. Reverting to a 'traditional' system is a downgrade, tweaking what is in place by making a few small changes is an upgrade.
     
  5. TantX

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    Depends on your definition of "traditional". I would love a UO combat system, and consider that more "traditional" myself than anything with a locked hotbar. Then again, I played it since '98 (stopped last summer), so traditionally speaking, it is my "traditional". But just give it some more modern flair and add some modern mechanics to give it way more options.
     
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  6. E n v y

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    Yeah I would love the UO based system of combat, but in truth due to the type of game shroud is (3d rather than isometric), the UO based system is impossible. What is in place is a good progression away from the locked combat bar seen in most games.
     
  7. TantX

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    What was key about UO's combat system that you like so much that you feel couldn't apply to a 3D game?
     
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  8. E n v y

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    Movement
     
  9. Spoon

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    More drama, insults, fluff and rhetorics, why?
    You expect everyone else to listen to you but you refuse to listen to others, why?

    Your example is again only POV. Yes most restaurants chose one supplier out of conveniance (not preference), while almost all malls or conveniance stores stock all sorts of soft drinks from multiple suppliers. Neither restaurants nor malls are comparable to multiplayer games, so was there any actual point hiding somewhere in all of that fluff?

    I don't focus on you. I'm a besserwisser, I like things to be correct or corrected. Your comparison to the food industry is flawed and you didn't clarify how it is even relevant. Such things begs to be corrected.
     
  10. TantX

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    How so? Is it not fast enough or not meaningful enough?
     
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  11. Abydos

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    I think we can have hope. Chris and his team will find the right solution.
     
  12. E n v y

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    Think about it. To have a true Uo based combat system you need to be able to bind spells/abilities to keys......I don't know about you but I have 50+ bound to keys. You can't have this kind of system unless you move around via the mouse, moving around in a 3d game with a mouse is just awful and clumsy.....even if you zoom out (then you have issues over trees and buildings).......hence the fact if you want a UO based combat system you have to run with an isometric game and not 3d.

    SotA is not going to be isometric and as such the UO based combat system could not really exist due to movement and visuals.......it simply hasn't been created as that kind of game.
     
  13. E n v y

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    Oh and those who still keep pining for UO based combat........do what I did......the word I use is "adapt".
     
  14. TantX

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    Hm. I think 50+ hotkeys is a bit much for most people, though. Even on UO I didn't have that many. I think it was about 35ish for combat.

    I played ArcheAge and found the combat deceptively simple on the surface. It became simple and boring because of gear, but before gear became the end-all-be-all of that game (early after launch), there were a lot of cool opportunities for dynamic, mobile fighting and the combo system changed what looked limiting into something extremely fast-paced and brutal. Even with my PvP experience primarily rooted in UO, I didn't have much of an issue setting up hotkeys and still use WASD effectively. I used a lot of Alt/Ctrl+Scroll button for things like Lasso, Tiger Strike, Shadowjump, Fear AoE (forget what it was called), then my hotbar and some other keys around my movement. If I had a gaming mouse, I'd use side buttons, too. Probably still have upwards of 25 hotkeys with half as many skill options as UO offered.

    I got the same intense combat feeling from AA that I did from UO, a lot of positioning and mobility during fights. The gliders helped with that, too. I just don't see how UO freedom of UI/hotkeys couldn't be implemented with a 3D world since the amount of hotkeys didn't drastically change.
     
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  15. Moiseyev Trueden

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    I HAVE A NEW WORD TO DESCRIBE MYSELF WITH!!!! (must incorporate it into a character name now... hmmm bard type character I think)
     
  16. High Baron Asguard

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    Hey you know what else WOW uses, a Keyboard. We better not use a keyboard then because we can't possibly be ANYTHING like WOW, everything about WOW is EVIL.



    I know, lets force all players to bang 2 saucepans together in front of a microphone and the amplitude of the sound picks the spell you use, that will be totally different from WOW and so awesome
     
  17. Ristra

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    This deck combat discussion is very much like the PvP discussion.

    Some are talking about the current state of PvP while others are talking about the intended directions of PvP. It's two different subject matters.

    The current state of the deck system, is this the finished product? Do we have a mega thread, with many dev hangouts, detailing the vision for the deck system? Can any of us realistically describe the differences between the current state and the intended state?

    For anyone that can only look at the current state, pre-release testing just isn't for you. It's probably best to wait till release. It will save a lot of stress abuse on the keyboard and mouse. This goes for all aspects of any game in development.

    Looking at the current state and not being able to see how it's possible to eventually morph into the intended state I can understand. We do not have design docs, we get generalities. With this deck combat, we do not have much for examples of working models. So keeping an eye on the goal isn't always easy.

    The goal I remember is to step away from spread sheet rotation combat. That's done. They knew, well before R1, the flaw of the initial design. It forces hotbar tunnel vision.

    Scrapping the entire system doesn't keep an eye on the goal.
     
  18. TantX

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    So what is the goal? It was one of two of my annoyances with R15. What's the vision?

    It's hard to keep an eye on something that isn't exactly well-defined.
     
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  19. TantX

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    At least I could train myself to make certain sounds in a specific manner to get the correct glyph I was aiming for.
     
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  20. Mishri

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    I like the combat system. My dad was avoiding using the deck system, just had his locked skills, and I am less than half his level and I surprised him with how a well built deck could handle things. I think there can be some improvements. But if the combat isn't fast enough for you, turn up your draw speed.

    So one thing a lot of people liked about FF14's combat system, even though it's fairly generic, is every monster has a "don't stand in the red spots" attack. so it keeps people on their toes. I hate twitch games, or games where you have to double tap to roll out of the way, but I did like the way FF14 did that. I did not care for Neverwinter's combat. I don't want this game to be an action rpg as many people are requesting. An action rpg imo involves dodging, moving your character into position, blocking and usually pushing a button to do any kind of attack, and frequently having different attacks to use depending on the person's defenses... I prefer a more tactical game, where I don't have to focus on controlling my character as much as I focus on using the right skills at the right times.
     
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