PaxLair Player Owned Town Scene Design and Test

Discussion in 'Player Owned Towns' started by Winfield, Mar 31, 2015.

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  1. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    You don't need a city lot for each lot Weins201, the whole reason for the city lots is to accommodate as many lot types as possible in the template, because you can fit multiple smaller lots on a single city-lot sized space. The flat space is there so 1 city lot could be placed there, but that doesn't mean you can only place one row lot in the city-lot sized space. The limitation is that the lots inside a city lot are currently snapping to the grid ex: village lots must be in the 4 corners of a city lot, and not rotated arbitrarily at a different angle than the space itself. No one ever said 1 building per city-sized space. That wouldn't make any sense at all for a template.

    With this 'multiple lots on a snap-to grid inside city-sized spaces' understanding, the purpose behind Spoon's tile-set idea, is to get around the snap-to grid requirement that leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to cities full of row-lots. It's a smart idea, and I hope we can see some traction with the Devs supporting it.
     
  2. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    It has been stated OVER AND OVER to plan for each lot to be City Sized.

    You cannot have it both ways in planning, hense why I brought it up as a problem.

    I really don't care about Snap to grid and other stuff I am working on BASIC POT planning, which the DEVs need to start dealing with R17.

    You even used it yourself, if you are going to plan for enough spaces for each lot to be city sized to accommodate placement then you HAVE to have 556 City spaces. not to mention the Keeps and Castles.

    And where is this snap to grid idea even coming from, did a Dev say that they will place smaller lots into city lot spaces snapping them in to the 4 corners or is this another "thought".
     
  3. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Avatar

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    No weins, the flattened areas where lots CAN be placed on a template are city sized.
     
  4. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    Ah themo, I understand this but if soo, which is my point - then you have to have 556 flat, city size spots for a Template
     
  5. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    PaxLair is working with the Devs for the R17 rollout and all the information is coming through their experience making the template that PaxLair will use. Please read the thread so we don't have to restate everything here for you.

    We don't need 556 city lot spaces, because a city-sized space can potentially hold up to 12 row houses, and the 556 number only comes from the number of row houses a Metropolis could hold.

    Doing the math, 556 city-sized spaces would take up the entire 1 km x 1 km map, leaving no room for any terrain since it would all have to be flat. That's obviously not how the templates are meant to function. If you can't understand how templates are meant to work, maybe it would be best for you to wait until template design has finished being developed, and there will be a few examples to show you.
     
  6. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    Wrong, if you ar making a template to hold the desires of ANYONE, then you have to have 556 spaces on it, from all your planning you all keep saying you need each space to be city sized so it can accommodate what people want.

    That is what would make a variable "template"

    If you thinking is true I could simple make it so that 9 castle spaces are in my "template" as they could hold any other variations below -

    I fully understand what all you are saying but again my point is you CANNOT have what you are saying and still hold true to a usable template by ANYONE, you are placing constraints if you do NOT have 556 lot spaces.

    And this is my last reply here I see what all you are saying, you just don't want to accept the constraints with your design and statements.

    TTFN
     
  7. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Avatar

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    The template is already made Weins, we were just trying to share the process with others so they understand what to expect.
     
  8. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    The only problem with all castle-lot spaces is the need to have roads leading up to the fronts of the lots. Castle lot spaces couldn't have these roads on the 'potential inner lots' unless they were all on cobble. It's a viable template design though. If there are enough PoT owners interested in that kind of lot placement, and the terrain surrounding it is interesting, it could have real potential.

    If you're looking for the freedom to place your lots absolutely anywhere in the scene, the entire scene would have to be flat, because you can't place lots on rough terrain. That's why we need these 'spaces'. There won't be just one template, there will be a few varieties, some with clustered neighborhoods, some with houses more spread out, some with windy roads, some with more regimented, structure. That variety will have to vary from template to template. Within a given template, the lot choices will have to be a bit more restrictive.
     
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  9. Ashlynn [Pax]

    Ashlynn [Pax] Avatar

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    I guess someone should make a template for Weins201 that has 556 individually zoned city lot sized areas should someone want to create a metropolis where each row lot is surrounded by a large amount of city lot sized open space. I think a perfectly leveled piece of flat terrain with no features should just about accommodate such an outlier.
     
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  10. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    If you start one more post with "wrong"....
     
  11. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

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    Ah. Where your assumption an my assumption differ is based on two things.
    1) I think that the addon store will sell out all Village lots before release.
    2)there are only 950ish addon Row deeds
    So yes there will be some Row deeds in the addon store early on but not enough to catch up with village lots.

    For in game gold, then this
    https://www.kickstarter.com/project...orsaken-virtues-0/posts/434752?cursor=2532428
    and other similar thoughts from a Portalarium tells us that they will not put up housing all at once, fearing it will sell out too soon. So if X is the number of lots they will create, and Y is the time before E2 with next continent comes. Then X/Y tells us that very few lots will be available early, or ever if the game is popular.

    So I don't think that Row lots will be some sort of entry level which people will pass to later upgrade. Instead I think that most will go for a premium, even Row lots.
    With how it currently looks like there will be fewer Row than Village on the market so Row will be closer in gold price.
     
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  12. Winfield

    Winfield Legend of the Hearth

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    I just returned from Portalarium. The PaxLair Scene is in QA (Quality Assurance) and is fully expected to be in Release 17.

    In fact, I test drove the PaxLair Scene on Lord British's Dev computer! And I was logged in as Lord British too! Of course, he was right there over my shoulder to make certain I did not run away and hide his avatar.

    [​IMG]
    PaxLair will be just East of Brittany. It is on the overland map in QA (not Live yet). See the name PaxLair? Wow!

    [​IMG]
    Lord British first on the scene at PaxLair -- very fitting for all the support he has given to PaxLair over 2 decades and for so many player towns and communities. /bows


    [​IMG]
    Me, Governor Winfield now at the controls. Please step aside Lord British Sire -- we have to get busy - many residents are ready to build the town!

    [​IMG]
    Governor Winfield in the PaxLair Scene for the first time. Amazing, really amazing!


    It is very different to see PaxLair at ground level than from a design map. It is really immersive and each neighborhood feels like its own little village. There are rural areas, rocky areas, urban areas, and water areas. The views are fantastic from atop the cliffs. Oh, and the waterfall and lake are wonderful!

    When the scene is launched, the row houses will have default houses, but all others will be empty lots, no walls or fences, flat pieces of land, typically with trees. For the unused portions of the city lots on the template, those appear perfectly flat too but seem to blend in pretty well with the scenery.

    We tested lots being set to a "restricted" setting enabling specific individuals to place on specific lots. It looks very easy for the PoT owner to do things and manage the lots; the owner can evict anyone too. We will see the full capabilities of the PoT lots permissions system when R17 goes live on April 30th.

    There is still a lot of discussion among the Devs about how to manage/build the templates and how housing can be subdivided. I carried forward a lot of the community's suggestions and they were seen/heard to help debate new ideas. The Devs work really hard on a LOT of things for each Release, so all things about PoTs are not solved yet. It is truly amazing to see them in action for an entire day ... until very late in the day.

    I moved a few row houses around on the PaxLair scene. I moved R9 through R12 to the upper center of the market area, and brought up R41, R42, R51, R52 from the Stonehill castle area to be placed behind R9 to R12 at the market. This gives a more natural row house developed area at the market where row houses exist for high density housing in small areas of land, like the market area.

    So Sean Silverfoot can work with people in those Row houses for R17 to move them around if needed and update the building plan.

    Here are the current PaxLair maps as of today:

    [​IMG]
    Subdivided lots on the template (city lots in Red).

    [​IMG]
    Final (as of April 22, 2015) lot locations.

    We will update more maps soon, but these are the current layouts.

    Thanks everyone for hanging in there with us on this journey. We've learned a lot and there is more to learn.
     
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  13. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    Good to see the 12 Row lot placement working ;-D Can't wait for next week!!
     
  14. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Avatar

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  15. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    For future template design reference:

    By my count, the PaxLair template has spaces for:
    Template:
    1k x 1k meters
    Total water lot spaces:
    Village water: 17 (12/17 used for PaxLair)
    Town water: 7 (3/7 used for PaxLair)
    City water: 4 (1/4 used for PaxLair)
    Total land lot spaces:
    Castle: 3 (2/3 used for PaxLair [2/2 subdivided])
    Keep: 5 (2/5 used for PaxLair [2/2 subdivided])
    City: 37 (35/37 used for PaxLair [33/35 subdivided])
     
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  16. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

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    This story shall the good player teach his kin;
    And PaxLair day shall ne’er go by,
    From this day to the ending of the world,
    But we in it shall be remembered-
    We few, we happy few, we band of players;
    For those to-day that sheds blood with me
    Shall be my kin; be they ne’er so vile,
    This day shall gentle that condition;
    And folks elsewhere now-a-bed
    Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
    And hold their courage cheap whiles any speaks
    That tested with us upon PaxLair's day.
     
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  17. Sindariya

    Sindariya Avatar

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    yeah, no fences. Will there be gaps between the lots are they really close?
     
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  18. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    This can be actually good, so people will spread out and many local communities are (more) likely to spawn, than a few mega-clusters where everyone wants to be in or near.

    If the designers' intent is to localize economies and gathering, this consideration may actually push in the right direction.
     
  19. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    This post is so full of win, I'm amazed by its shining glory! :eek:


    There are no words to express my excitement and gratitude toward Winfield, Portalarium and all the players that gathered together and shared passion and dedication toward this common goal.
     
  20. Winfield

    Winfield Legend of the Hearth

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    Where you see the red template city lot subdivided into smaller adjacent lots, those are perfectly aligned next to each other as they were "snapped" together. So there is no space between them. Some of the template city lots are contiguously combined areas too, like for the Market Area, so the row houses on two separate template city lots -- they are snapped together as well.

    Therefore, the lots are touching each other so tall grass and trees won't be between them. Anywhere you see lots together, Riya, can be places for a maze, or on any big or small lot too. (Did I just say that?)
     
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