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If we want to balance Range vs. Melee then ranged MUST require standing still

Discussion in 'Release 21 Feedback' started by Poor game design, Sep 4, 2015.

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  1. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    If we want to balance Range vs. Melee then ranged MUST require standing still. That's just a fact.

    If you can run around and cast spells or shoot a bow, then melee is always going to be inferior.
     
  2. Womby

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    It makes sense that archery would be inaccurate if you are firing arrows while moving. As for spells, those that require time to cast should perhaps be interrupted by movement. That doesn't seem controversial to me, but then I'm strictly PVE melee, so it doesn't affect me. :)
     
  3. Drocis the Devious

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    Anything that makes people stop moving and exploiting latency is controversial. :)
     
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  4. Barugon

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    Yes, please, let's nerf archery more... as long as meleers have to wear the same armor.

    If you think they MUST stand still then you should watch this:

     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  5. KuBaTRiZeS

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    You get a bonus for standing still, and while moving you get a major penalty to attack skill... don't know what impact that have in my output but i don't see it as a good thing. Besides, arrows are expensive and i don't want to waste them. That's why even if i have the option to shoot while moving, i usually stand still before let my arrow fly. Sometimes i shoot while moving because i'm being chased by an awful lot of enemies... and i do so knowing that's a wasted arrow.

    If this game is about options, i don't see the point in forcing stuff into players. Current way of handling ranged combat seems ok to me, because it allows you to gain some advantage (run while shooting) at the cost of some efficency (less attack skill whatever that means).

    They do, and they have a superior fizzle chance (an additional 20%) if you try to use them while moving.
     
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  6. Drocis the Devious

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    I'm really sick of seeing this parkour video.

    Look, it's not that I want to nerf anything, I'm just trying to make all the fights fair so that everyone that uses melee doesn't also have to use a bow and have magic to compete. Can't you see how unbalanced range is in this game?
     
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  7. Barugon

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    Have you actually tried it in R21?
     
  8. Drocis the Devious

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    Ranged vs. Melee, yes. Why do you ask?

    You have to look past your own bias. Have you actually tried to chase someone around using only melee?
     
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  9. Barugon

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    So, you've built an archer since last week? Or are you saying that you got owned by an archer and now you're trying to get them nerfed?

    Personally, I'm of the mindset that if this game becomes all about PvP then I'll be selling my account and moving on.

    BTW, there are plenty of ways to slow people down. You just have to look past your own bias.
     
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  10. Drocis the Devious

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    Actually I'm talking about range in general. And personally I don't think it matters what you personally do in the context of this conversation.

    I'm talking about ranged (including archery and magic) vs. melee.

    So ideally, I think players using bows and magic should be able to kill things before they reach them. That's not nerfing. But I also think that if someone reaches them, they should pretty much be dead.
     
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  11. Barugon

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    Well, it's interesting that I get hit by mobs all the time while running. Maybe I'm not doing it correctly.
     
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  12. Drocis the Devious

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    There's latency, and mobs have been made a lot faster.

    If you're not using sprint or dash, or something to root them or slow them...then yeah, you're not doing something right. I would argue that running around auto-attacking with a bow is probably not the best game design. I would also argue that perhaps swapping to a melee weapon would make sense when they get close.

    I personally think that all ranged weapons should also have a minimum range. All AOE spells should do friendly fire damage.
     
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  13. Edward Newgate

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    Thats wy things like autoatack/hit shouldnt be in the game.

    Having the poss. to dodge range and spell atacks with combat rolling would solve your problem.
     
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  14. Drocis the Devious

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    I'm not a fan of auto-attack. I think it should be removed for several reasons. I'm not sure combat rolling is the best solution though. If it's just math behind an animation, great. If it's FPS twitch, not so good. I don't mind twitch mechanics but I dislike losing because of latency. Unfortunately, I don't see where in today's world you can have one without the other.
     
  15. Edward Newgate

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    darksouls is a n1 exampel how gread combat roll is for gameplay.
    You not only get a chanze to dodge an atack, this would allow diffferent types of atack speed /spells and removes the need of healing spells wich can be used right now how often you like.
    This would allow a max number of healing potions a player can carry and how often he could use heal wich would allsow solf the healing "problem"
     
  16. Peabo

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    please don't suggest things unless you have tested them..
     
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  17. Kara Brae

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    You can cast a spell when running? I've had to stand still when casting ranged spells ever since I've been a mage. Is this a setting somewhere?
     
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  18. Sara Dreygon

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    Yes, there's a setting... I think it's called something like "don't allow movement when casting".
     
  19. Kara Brae

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    I remember checking that box many releases ago because if I moved, I interrupted the spell-casting. I'll have to uncheck it and see how it behaves now.
     
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  20. Albus

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    OP has a point, exact balance solution(s) I'm less sure of pending other features coming into play, i.e. cover, more shield functionality, maybe weather, etc.. But as for testing, I've surely tested that last release (not so much this release thus far, not with bow as ranged at least). But R20 I could run around with bow firing off shots while melee chased & died, main trick was avoiding leading into another mob really. I'd still usually let the pursuer get up into melee range by they time they were almost dead though, switch to melee and finish that last bit of health with a sword (I don't really like the use of bows *in* melee, kills my sense of realism, though at least we have such as Legolas on LOTR movies as examples of at least a fantasy version of using arrows in melee :p).

    Anyway the ranged vs. melee issue is easily seen in other games as well, it's the kiting issue. People on horseback might pull of such feats (soooo if we nix firing on the run for now for realism/balance, once horses are added there won't be much of a realism argument against firing on the move from horseback - balance, another matter, but I'd like to see mounted combat come into game eventually, sooo thinking a little ahead on that one). Cover (when added) may help a lot so I'm a little cautious on bow balances at this point... I do think shields (especially if we add a large scutum/"tower" type shield) should be *much* more effective against archery, but only if it passes through the shielded/frontal facing.

    Also as far as armour goes, full plate archery is a thing too ;) But more advantages to light armour seem fitting to me at this point.
     
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