If we want to balance Range vs. Melee then ranged MUST require standing still

I think Drocis is talking about instantaneous Spells. If you move while casting a spell with casting time it's interrupted.

That only prevent your char to move while you cast a spell. With that unlocked you're free to move and interrupt the spell you're casting. But it doesn't allow you to cast let's say a Fire Arrow while moving.

I think shooting an arrow at almost melee is feasible but the damage should be low. But i'm ok with bows having a minimum range as long as they can hit as far as a bow should be able to. I also like AOEs doing friendly fire.

 

Having AOEs inflict friendly fire would put pressure on PVE players to stay in single player, which would of course act against the social aspects of the game. The choice would often be something like "Play with my friends using a deck with no AOE, or play on my own using AOE?". The latter will typically yield much greater rewards per hour of play, at the cost of social interaction.

After an extended period of that Novia would perhaps be controlled by a cabal of morose loners, who would reluctantly meet once a year.

 

Some spells force standing still, like Ice Arrow. But most of the others don't. You can shoot behind your character without even seeing what you're shooting at, the spell animation goes through your back.

 

That's certainly a valid point. How about AOE does friendly fire to anyone flagged for PVP?

 

Always-on friendly fire was tested in PFO. It prevented players from using AE's, pretty much 99% of the time. In fact, most players didn't even buy those feats, because it flagged them and caused all sorts of other problems, not the least of which was killing your allies, even when you didn't want to and were trying your best NOT to.
After seeing friendly fire in a modern MMO first hand, my opinion is: It should never, ever, EVER be used as a gameplay mechanic in any MMO. It's terrible, horrible, bad in every possible way.

EDIT: Oh, and they took it out, after testing it for 6+ months. No more friendly fire AE.

 

PFO? Again, I'm wondering about PVP here and not PVE. In Planetside they had friendly fire and it worked very well.

 

+1 to the above

There is no realism is believing a guy wearing a full plate suit could ever catch me on foot as an archer. Nor am I likely to kill that person unless I get an eye shot. In real life I'd wait for dehydration to take them out or I'd wait till they trip or try to sleep and go knife them in the neck.

Why do we keep looking for a fair fight? As soon as you flag PvP and get attacked 2v1, fair has left long ago.

Out in the open ranged is having a good time. Where they should. Have you fought people in confined spaces? You would be asking ranged to stop to shoot in a sewer. Then you want to give them a minimum range? So essentially you are asking ranged to not function in any underground environment or Corn Maze for that matter.

I do agree with you that I should not be able to use my special abilities (Aimed Shot etc) while not even facing my opponent. That is lame. Not requiring ammo to use these skills is also lame at present.

Asking ranged in PvP or PvE to just stand around and take it to the face is not going to be a fun game.

 

Oh I agree. That's why I think archery should do more damage and then only have to clean up with melee if their enemies get close. There should be a fun path to success for archery and ranged magic. But it should be a balanced and fair path, that's what I'm saying.

 

Ill keep leveling but I'm already spread way to thin to have more skills in another tree. I think this use base system needs a chance and the problems need to be solved before we can tweak much of anything. Hardly anyone is at a high level and hardly any fights are evenly matched based on the pure trial and error process of this release.

A ton of skills dont even change as we level right now.

I just dont see choosing Ranges strong point (open field combat a la Owl's Head) and nerfing it without considering that they should be good somewhere as confined spaces are already a huge weakness. Making the game unplayable in PvE in all of the underground content is not going to garner a lot of positivity.

 

I love the use based system. It's made the game 1000 times more fun for me. I'm just looking for ways to improve and balance it.

 

LOL That's ok if the same goes for the mobs, as range is now I have to get too close for my skills to light up, and by the time they do the mob is already coming at me.... I think range as an archer sux really ....

 

Most definitely Range skill seems to improve very slowly and doesn't seem to make much of a difference at low skill levels (mine is 20 and the pack of wolves is almost upon me before I can use my other archery skills...)

 

Yes, the range for Archers sux, that's the unbalance I see. I have to get pretty darn close to a mob for my skills to light up, and by the time they do I have them coming at me. I am an Archer, I am suppose to have range, a lot more then I currently have, the mobs range far exceeds mine that's for sure. And as an Archer for reasons we have stated till we are blue in the face, can't carry a lot of arrows due to the accumulated weight of them and it takes a lot to kill something.
And if we are not to move as a light armor wearer ( have to be due to the weight of the arrows) for archery then they need to add more protection or whats the dang point of playing one really, I already ran out of arrows and gold just buying them .... so i have to goto newbie area without arrows to try and get some ore, wood hides etc to sell so I can buy more arrows .... as far as making them i need to be able to hunt in the areas to get the nodes lol.... I wish the main arrows were free. Mages don't need reagents for their regular spells, just for the higher ones.... Fighters/tanks just need a sword .... so Archers get the shaft cause we can't kill without arrows, so then MAKE the plain arrows FREE AND WEIGHTLESS, so we can carry what we need to kill stuff that takes a lot of arrows to bring down, especially if we have to just stand there. JMHO I think the peeps that cry for a change to Archers like further weaken us NEED TO PLAY ONE to know what we are talking about. I am so dam tired of some peeps thinking we are OP, we are definitely NOT!!!! Maybe your char needs a lift.

 

Fully with you on this point. The old system had 12 releases of trial. We should give this new system a few releases to really find the problems before tweaking starts.

 

Part of the issue is we don't know what the range is, nor what or how much the modifiers adjust.
The tooltips need to clarify the range, not just "medium range" or "ranged", but the exact range, in meters. In short, the tooltips don't show enough detail.

Currently, if you get within "Searing Ray" range (medium range) the mob will always be attacking. Ok, so if you can't get off a single ranged attack before you are in combat, it's not a ranged attack. Even if there was a 5m grace range, where the mob wouldn't attack, but you could target, then there would be some value. As it is now? Nope.
Longer range attacks, like "Fire Arrow", even for those, some mobs (curse you Grey Wolves, curse you) will be attacking as soon as you target them.

This is all compounded with two other problems. Scenes are currently designed to hide creatures, which is super annoying, and tab target range is exactly Searing Ray range, not Fire Arrow range. Additionally, even though you can see some creatures, you can't click on them to target them, until you're close enough that they will attack. The closest you can target them is when they're in Fire Arrow range, but as soon as you click on them, some chase you, some don't. But you can't click on them before that, even though you technically could if the cursor would highlight sooner.

Finally, some mob types (thug, bandit, ruffian) have movement issues, that is, their animation is faster than their movement rate, making them look like they're running in place on ice, but as a result, they give up chasing you at about half the range of Fire Arrow, requiring that you re-attack them so they maintain interest. Also, their linked peers (really? hard linked aggro in 2015?) will stop, turn around, and stand around dumbly at this range.
On the other hand, small and large wolf spiders will attack from across the scene for no reason, and only give up when you're at a scene exit, after poisoning you (with something that removes more than half your hit points from a single DoT) then fleeing at super-speed, then repeating.

Clearly, there are tons of bugs present, and lots of missing & conflicting features. That it works at all is nice, but it's far too soon to be criticizing it all as a complete system, imho.

 

All of the above.

 

they just need to make the penalty for moving such that only those that have invested in mastering archery can really get away with moving while shooting. I also think that movement should give the mover an avoidance buff, a moving target is much harder to hit, regardless of whether your using a sword or bow. I also think the base archery range needs increasing, i have been experimenting with firing some shots at range and then switching to sword, its novilty at best because of the range, you can't shoot something and get your sword out before it gets to you. dinkus!

 

Hey, quick question for those wanting ranged to have to stand in one spot and trade blows with melee. If you are melee, are you planning on doing any kind of movement like circle strafing and hopping about or will you be standing, toe to toe, trading blows and let the random number be the deciding vote on who wins? The advantage to playing a ranged is to do that, stay at range. If I am in cloth and a caster, the last think I want to do is let a melee in plate wielding a huge sword get up to me. I will be running and casting. If I have to stop to cast, I will do that when I can but I will do everything I can to keep away from you.

The idea that casters and ranged players should also have to take up melee skills is no different than saying melee classes must take up ranged if they want to battle a ranged player. If you don't want to have to take up magic or the bow to battle the ranged player in their play style, why must they take up melee to battle in yours?

I haven't played a bow person but have played some magic and dealing with fire, life, death and earth, the spells that are range all have an execution time and require you to be stopped to cast or they will be interrupted. Of course you have the instant cast stone fist, death touch and flame fist but they are close range so if we are relying on those, you are already too close for my comfort. Shoot, even root has an execution time.

How many of your melee skills require you stand and not move and take the blows while you wind up a swing?

 

My argument would be, they should. It's better for server response, it's easier to balance, it creates less exploits, etc...

I think melee should be just as still as magic and archery.

 

I agree. How does a pure mage with no weapons or wand or stave in his hands have an auto attack? Does auto attack only apply to a mage if he has a wand/staff? On the moving while fighting with ranged there should be only skilled shots that allow that, not auto attack shots. Also, anyone that runs during combat should take a focus penalty, ranged or melee, but there should be skills to offset that also.