What is missing from game!

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Brink1123, Nov 5, 2015.

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  1. Brink1123

    Brink1123 Avatar

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    Hello all, This thread will be very controversial and i know i will get a lot of blow back from the community. I have had this on my chest for quite some time now and i have put alot of thought behind what im about to say.
    so hopefully this thread doesn't get moderated, a lot of threads have been moderated lately.


    Many years ago I was addicted to Ultima Online i mean really addicted to it, I played it every day for hours for about 10 years during my adolescence. Back then things were quite different, Things were more challenging more rewarding in game. Let me give you a couple of examples of what i mean.

    1. In UO when your house decayed you lost it forever. There was no deed put back in your bank, it was yours and your responsibility to make sure you refreshed it. just like in real life if you dont keep up with your house it will eventually collapse.

    2. in UO everyone and anyone could attack anyone all the time. just like in real life you never know what is going to happen to you when you walk out your door and even sometimes in your own house.

    3. In UO When you died the victor pvp or pve could and did loot you, you are dead and have no control of what happens anymore, just like in real life.


    But why was i so addicted to this game? The main reason i loved UO was because of the raw emotions it brought out in me. not in my avatar but in me sitting behind my pc. Let me give you some examples.

    1. I remember being terrified around every corner thinking a pk was going to roll up on me at anytime. being careful and never looking away from my pc so i wouldn't be caught off guard.

    2. i remember the excitement and trill of running for my life hands shaking yelling acrossed Skype for my friends to help me out.

    3. I remember how nervous i became when i was thinking about attacking someone because i knew the risk of losing the fight was the loss of my gear, and i would have a risk management assessment in my head about if and how to attack them...... things like, do i think i can win, do they have friends close by, do i have backup if needed, whats the best escape route is needed.


    just like any good music or good movie what makes them good is the emotions it brings out in the audience. any good game needs to bring out those emotions in the player. We need to hurt when our avatar hurts and will need to worry about where and what the dangers are. we need to feel excitement in accomplishing a difficult task. we need those emotions to feel physically connected to the game.

    so far in game i have never felt any emotions that connected me to the game in a physical way, my hands haven't shaken out of fear or Adrenalin there is nothing that im worried about because if i die theirs no punishment. to me it seems like everything in game is handed out easily no punishment in any aspect of the game no risk vs reward thats what its missing.

    thank you for reading this and i wont get to bent out of shape over the comments. because times have changed and people seem to want the easy way out.
     
  2. Bowen Bloodgood

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    First off.. the agreement part.. Yes death needs to sting at least enough that people want to avoid it. Personally, for myself I don't care because I simply hate dying for any reason and that's punishment enough for me. I get very annoyed. But not everyone is like me in that regard. I do think death is supposed to hurt but I suspect exactly how hasn't been figured out yet. Or at least they aren't ready to go there.

    The other stuff... well not everyone is like you either. One of the major problems with UO is what was fun for you.. was very unfun for others. Let's call it a personal preference thing and I'm content to leave it at that.

    The main point I think you've getting at.. the need for risk and consequences.. while sometimes tricky to find the right balance, is still very real. No risk means no reward for risk taking. No sense of overcoming that risk. No sense of worthy achievement.
     
  3. Mugly Wumple

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    Not really the emotions I want in a game.
     
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  4. Mugly Wumple

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    So, that last was a bit snide. Really, your post was so much like my own experience - addicted for years beginning in '98, hours and hours on end in front of my computer. Except I was not an adolescent, I was 40 years old. As far as the fear, the nerviousness, the shaky hands, the jumping at shadows; I had those as well, but I thoroughly disliked it. I did not and do not like the idea of a threat behind every corner.
     
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  5. Brink1123

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    do you watch movies and not like the emotions it brings out in you?
     
  6. majoria70

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    @Brink123 Oh I really want to comment on this because I'm really interested in the topic of this game providing an avenue for all the emotions to run free that we want that is. So thank you for bringing it up. So what happened for me in UO was much of what you said. I was not a pvper but still had to beware and watch out for them, like accidentally walking thru a gate that led to their lair to be stollen from and killed. Then there was the amazing experiences with other players that the game allowed and as you mentioned, yes another time and different experiences going on in my life also.

    One problem to bringing that here is UO was a completed game first off, this is not even close to it, but not to lecture you on part since you are aware I'm sure. Thing is we still have a chance to have things we need put in the game at this point in development. Nothing is set in stone. If once it's all put together it is not fun, then we say that is not fun and explain why.

    I know that's what you are doing now by baring your soul here a little that is. It is frustrating to think it won't turn out, but we don't know that it won't. For some it will, some it won't of course. Getting the basic things in like animations, character reactions, combat animations, sounds, the complete world and it's environmental things, all conversations, reactions of npcs, crafting, taming, agricultural stuff, fishing stuff and a zillions of other things have to go in before we will totally see what we can do with some of the details that you are asking for.

    No one can promise it will be just like your experience with UO, some of that depends on you also and other factors of course. ok so just my thoughts. I am gonna hang out and keep saying what I see and experience until this game is done. That's the best I can do to help it I want as much interactivity as possible between character and envirnment. I want Avatars that are polished and express things like showing illness, plague, delight etc. I would even like them to vomit if they were ill, or die if they drank too much poison to help with poison resist. I want to sleep in the beds, even perhaps the tall dark haired stranger can too lol j/k. So we all have hopes and desires for this game, it is not just you, but it is way to early for anyone to give up. We've got the best development team possible. They hear us.:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  7. Mugly Wumple

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    House of Sand and Fog and Grave of the Fireflies have both brought me to tears and I'd watch them again.
     
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  8. Kara Brae

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    I think you did a good job in explaining the passion you had for UO and I want to thank you for sharing.

    I don't agree that "times have changed and people seem to want the easy way out." People are just not all the same and they enjoy different things. And there are real-life thrill seekers who probably think anyone getting their thrills sitting in front of a computer was wanting the easy way out. ;)
     
  9. Satan Himself

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    Agree almost completely with your post, you nailed the emotional part of UO which was the basis for the addiction for a lot of people.

    I HAVE felt a few similar pangs in SOTA. Due to the difficulty at low levels of some of the hat quests, those could be quite tense sometimes. When I started fighting large red spiders, and they'd sneak up on me in the dark, I literally jumped the first few times. Lich hunting is a fun struggle at lower levels. So there are some of these elements in the game. But there is not a constant feeling of danger, and I think that's what you're getting at, as in pre-Trammel UO.

    You can adventure safely in SOTA because there is no real consequence to PvE. They have however improved PvP (ransom) which should help. But the mere fact that PvP is optional makes the game much less dangerous.

    Obviously there is a wide spectrum of players' feeling about this subject. Some are content to craft all day and not worry about adventuring or PvP, whereas other hardcore PvPers are frustrated by the lack of a well-developed and consequential PvP system. And most of us are somewhere in between.

    All I can say is that the game has increasingly done a better job of catering to ALL play styles even if none of us will ever agree on the perfect mix.
     
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  10. Skyo

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    This is a perfect example of exactly what makes every have great. Well done. I agree with everything you have stated here and the only thing that I would add is the amount of replayability in a game that can successfully do this is absolutely insain. Community's will be built around it and finally a new exciting MMORPG could imerge by doing some things from the past correctly and just improving on them!

    Everything is handed to players these days! Let it be no more!

    Well said!
     
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  11. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Just to chime in.. I myself do not watch movies to get emotional. I watch them to be entertained. Getting sad, angry or being worried, afraid or otherwise emotional doesn't do that for me. Fortunately, games I play in of themselves don't evoke those responses for me.
     
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  12. redfish

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    I also remember in U8, there was a bit of a feeling of excitement when you were underground and everything began to shake, because it meant stalagmites were going to fall and maybe hit you, and other times the ground might crumble underneath you.
     
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  13. redfish

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    Btw, I never liked the house decay thing in UO just because it was punishing people for having a real life and staying away from the game. Also, its hard to call it realistic, since it was a relatively short time period, you didn't really do any maintenance, and camping house decays was just a silly mechanic. I think the way it works in SotA is much better.

    I also like the concept of Open PvP and would have liked to see some form of it in this game, but I think most of it in UO just really had no role-playing content, and largely about griefing, and that's what bothered me. It was really silly in the end that you could have a neighbor who was a murderer, who killed you every time you left your house, for no reason, and if he died, he resurrected, and kept on doing it. If SotA ever moves towards Open PvP (not hopeful at this point), I would like a system that help steers it towards role-playing.

    I would like to see death sting some more, and I've suggested for instance that players accumulate injuries on death that limits max health until they're treated.
     
  14. Brink1123

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    house decay in UO wasnt that bad i think they gave you 14-21 real days to refresh it and it only took literally 1 min to do. also anyone who was friended or co owned to your house could refresh it by just walking into your house.
     
  15. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    I would be very tempted to play a character with quite a few 'deaths' under his belt just for the grisly appearance in roleplay aspects alone! I love this idea. (inferring of course that the injuries we accumulate would show up visually on our characters)
     
  16. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    What is missing from this game?

    In my not-so-humble opinion, it sorely misses players accepting the way this game is being designed, its goals, its core features and principles; it misses players not wanting to bend it to what their juvenile days memories tell them it should be bent.

    That's a very, very, very important part missing from this game.

    I'm confident that a more mature audience will emerge and will enjoy what the game has to offer, what compromises are to be made, what it is and especially what is it not.

    If you want shaking hands, you can always join me on EVE Online. I guarantee you will be unable to blink your eyes, in the right circumstances.
     
  17. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    I remember back during Kickstarter, Tracy Hickman said if it were up to him, all players would have permadeath. Now that's a death penalty. Anything less is making the job of immersing yourself in a realistic feeling world and story, difficult.

    I would be totally psyched if SotA figured out a way to design a selective multiplayer, online / offline, deep-storied role playing, highly interactive sandbox game that expects and and all players to die with permadeath. But that's not the plan.

    At the same time, there's nothing juvenile about continuously expressing to the open development team, what we think we like in a game - it can be valuable feedback as they work on this game for us to play.
     
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  18. Skyo

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    This game is crowd funded and its still in pre alpha there is still plenty of time for the developers to hear the people and increase pvp playability, death penalty and increase risk vs reward in a way that will make SotA the true gamers fantasy have for years to come!

    I have faith this dev team will execute.
     
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  19. Lord_Darkmoon

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    What is missing from game?
    The single player part...

    This game has consensual PvP and for a reason. UO did not have a story you could follow whereas SotA will be story-driven game as you can read on the website. So there could never be forced open PvP with full loot.
    Tell me, in a story-driven game like SotA, where you follow quest after quest in order to experience the story, how can you do that when you are attacked constantly by other players? This would be very frustrating for those who want to follow the story and do quests. Therefore PvP in SotA just works when it is consensual and when you can opt out of it.
     
  20. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Nobody said it was..
     
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