Why the guild war system is Wrong for Role Play

I was just posting this idea while you were writing this.

 

Mentioned it before but instead of the friend thing, why can't they just throw the two guilds into their own instance with each other for the duration of the war?

The system know the guilds, they know all the members that would have to be flagged for the war, so just pop all of you into your war zone and let you at each other.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/multiple-friends-lists.43647/

Great minds think alike!! Just saw this lol.

 

I understand why some folks are upset about the ability for nonpvp flagged people to be able to attack pvp flagged people arbitrarily.

What I don't understand is why people say it isn't copacetic from an rp perspective.

You reference uo days in nostalgia, but youre remembering only one side of it. It honestly sounds like your uo pvp experience was pvping in guild wars in Tram only. In felucia, it didn't matter who you were, if you were a miner or a pro pvper, a trammy hiding by the moon gates etc... you were a target. There were no flags and there were no rules.

The dev team is introducing an environment where you can choose to live by the sword but if you do make that choice, you must accept the dangers that go along with that lifestyle. If Lord British issued a decree that violence and murder were illegal and all noncriminals had the legitimate right as citizens to run the criminals "pvpers" out of town by any means necessary, your RP would fit.

The current reality is, you make a choice to flag, regardless if it is by means of guild warfare ("duty to your clan")or by means of individual desire, but you choose the danger associated by default.

So from my perspective, youre trying to create a new rule set for yourself (controlled pvp in tram) which protects you from consequences associated with your actions as a character.

Is your cause worth the risks? For some people, this would only strengthen their resolve to take up arms for their brethren and their cause but for others, its an excuse to drop their weapon in the dirt and walk away. Which one are you?

Live by the sword... die by the sword.

Grave

 

yes, this is exactly my point. I am referencing Trammel Guild wars. Fel is a different scenario. In Trammel guild wars you only flagged pvp against people you are at war with. Also, I am not trying to create anything. I am telling my feedback on the guild war perspective from my role play point of view. It is the reason I am selling my accounts. YMMV

 

right, if you went to Felucca, but if you stayed in tram you could have your ROE.

 

Im fully aware of this Rav but it makes sense that townspeople would be allowed and encouraged to run off two waring factions who were making a mess of the town.

You can rppvp in your own towns or towns of your rivals and simply take care in public areas. Do you remember when I opposed removal of banning in pvp towns and you pushed it as hard as you could? Sometimes controlled environments are handy eh?

You have options here that you're choosing not to accept...

...and that's your right to do.

 

Got ya. I understand what you are concerned with. It seems this current iteration of guild warefare is the optimal solution from a pvp standpoint. (besides the entire game being open PVP) This way will present the most opportunity for PVP. It seems like if you want a controlled pvp situation you would have to follow the friends only solutions others have provided. Who knows though, maybe they will make changes to the system in the future.

 

@Chris, is there any way in the future that we could be able to achieve something like this in the OP? Please reconsider the current system.

 

With some adjustments to the way the friends list works (like Bowen talked about in the other thread), why couldn't you have RoE for rp pvp? I'm really confused as to why you are so upset and selling your accounts over something that with a few small changes could be implemented, even with the current guild warfare system that flags everyone open pvp.

 

Thats why I pinged @Chris to see if it is possible to make these changes. Its my last effort. I have been trying to get info on this for years. As I stated in the OP this is the reason I backed this game. I do not expect anyone to understand as it seems like I am very alone on my feelings on this.

 

You'd be surprise just how much you're 'NOT' alone in some of the questions you've raised. Reiteration is never a bad thing.

 

Sorry didn't mean to come across that way and give you that idea. I'm pretty much on the same page with you. I was just trying to say that I believe the finished product will have the ability to do something like you describe in the OP. I think the majority of people would agree with you on this. But even as we stand now, there are still some options for rp pvp, but of course they're far from ideal. It would be a huge hassle to set up the friends lists like that for everyone involved, but is a possibility.

 

This idea is pretty much the only way it will work with the current system. Instead of Multplayer Online, Friends Online and both Single Player options, we could also have Guild Conflict Online. It's no different than a friends list that auto-populates with everyone in your guild and the opposing guild(s).

If the devs want consentual PvP, and also want more people involved, give those on the fence some measure of control to tailor the experience.

 

I actually share that nostalgic desire to revitalize an environment as Rav is attempting. We both fought in guild based race war rppvp, he as an Orc, I as a Dark Elf.

My goal here was not at all to discourage the attempt to make the system what he wants it to be, but just to provide some alternate perspective that any rper could appreciate and show that there are options to get it close enough to still have a lot of fun. Going to the extreme of quitting the game is unnecessary and likely counterproductive to the cause as it honestly comes off in a way I don't think he intends.

I just think the guns need to be put away and a few deep breaths be had. Rav obviously doesn't want to go and there are A Lot of people who want him to stay.

I'll digress, it's just 2 cents.

 

Sorry Ravicus, I don't know much about Guild PvP (or their plans for it), and I don't want to assume I fully understand the worry. I do see that you guys had a wonderful method of waging fair and honorable warfare that was likely very rewarding, but it didn't seem that you guys had any particular mechanics to support the concept and everything was custom rulesets that all parties agreed upon, and you utilized existing mechanics creatively to make things work for you.

Is it that you were hoping they would institute mechanics similar to your style of warfare so that you would no longer require the need for custom rules and streamline the warfare you once experienced since everything was controlled by mechanics in line with that system? There are a lot of really good ideas mixed in there that could easily translate to a nice mechanic.

And what, so far, about the guild warfare system, other than lacking those ideas, upsets you so? Is there some mechanic now that would make it impossible for you to institute the same custom honorable warfare system?

 

Sure, I will do my best to pen with clarity.
"Is it that you were hoping they would institute mechanics similar to your style of warfare so that you would no longer require the need for custom rules and streamline the warfare you once experienced since everything was controlled by mechanics in line with that system?"
No, not really. I do not want them to change the system much. Role Play can adapt to many things.
"And what, so far, about the guild warfare system, other than lacking those ideas, upsets you so? Is there some mechanic now that would make it impossible for you to institute the same custom honorable warfare system?"
The only thing that upsets me is the flagging for open world pvp? When you do this kind of RPpvp you only wear non enhanced armor you are actually playing "roles" and are in character. So a Wizard would be limited to what he can do. There would be set healers. Warriors could not use magic and limited to bandages and potions. When you flag for open pvp doing this the other people that will be attacking you will not be in character or limiting themselves. Consider this a grand stage play, but the battles are not scripted and the outcome is not known until then end. You can then go back to the tavern and tell your war stories. Its the classic case of people just not respecting others playstyles, and griefing does happen. That's what was so magical about UO at that time. It was the perfect RP system. It only allowed you to be attacked by warring guilds. With the flagging open pvp to everyone will end this kind of RP quickly. I sure hope @Chris responds to this thread sometime. I would appreciate it if he could tell me if this could be possible in the future.

 

I think that guilds have 'rules of engagement' is great. However, I see that as a purely role played choice, not something that should be coded into the game. Each guild needs to be able to choose its own rules of engagement in a guild war, and they may not be the same for two guilds that have declared against one another. That one group may have different rules needs to be part of the uncertainty and risk that comes with declaring the guild war. Role playing choice needs to be left in the hands of the players.

 

Have to say, if they actually implemented anything even remotely close to how you described this, I would find a proper guild and flag myself as one of the honor guard (or whatever) to partake in it. Having an actual reason to PvP would be so much more appealing to me than our current design.

 

Yes, but the initial concept of NOT being open world PvP is what matters here. Everything else can be tweaked accordingly if it weren't for the everyone in guild is insta-flagged open PvP. It allows RP to RP and allows those who don't to still have guild wars and flag open PvP if they want to.