So where is the immersion?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Jun 20, 2016.

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  1. Bubonic

    Bubonic Avatar

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    my point is this: Once the game has reached full persistence, you can no longer have major design changes. Hence the lack of any more wipes. If you do, you run the risk of screwing everyone who has started the game full tilt.

    So pretty much what you see at this point is what you get, with the exception of minor tweaks, updates, and more content.
     
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  2. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    I dont agree they could change everything just about with the exceptions of housing locations and the like mabey even those.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
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  3. Sir_Hemlock

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    Yes. I had more to write but it won't change a thing
     
  4. 2112Starman

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    "immersion" is a personal opinion. I personally feel that SOTA is perfectly immersive for my game play right now. im not all that into story. I can log in and do a million different things I enjoy now. this is all a matter of perspective and I do understand that some people may be going into this game with far greater expectations then I do, but I do think I have my head wrapped around the size of this game with them money they have as well as the size of their dev team. Im ok with it. If others arnt, they may be looking for that next AAA game that has 200 million dumped into it and 5+ years to develop. SOTA is amazingly "complex" for the size of the project, I love it. Sure, other things may not be as "refined" but I can live with that.
     
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  5. 2112Starman

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    "persistent" means they just dont wipe. "going live" or having a game they call "complete" happens in December. There is a big difference here. You will see massive story added to this game "after" persistence and "before" release as well as probably a lot of fundamental changes in game mechanisms. This really is not all that difficult to understand.

    Where I place my deed and the decorations I put on it are a lot different then say ripping out the combat system and trying another before December.
     
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  6. Bubonic

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    Patronizing quotes aside,

    This statement pretty much exactly proves my point. We aren't talking about where you place your deed, we are talking about major design decisions to address the glaring issues brought up by the OP.
     
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  7. Alexander

    Alexander Avatar

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    Thought I would chime in here. For me, immersion is a well written story within a game. The graphics could be the most basic ( Ultima 5 for example ). If the story is well written to the point that the characters are believable and credible, then to me, that is immersive.
    Edit: NPC dialogue is equally important in terms of credibility of the character.
    Unfortunately, I won't be holding my breath on it being something like an Ultima 5, or even an Ultima 7 SI, which is unfortunate. I feel that story telling within a video game is quickly becoming a dying art.
    Also, just from reading the comments in this thread, I get the feeling that immersion is different for everyone.
     
  8. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    It's impossible to argue effectively with one who's decided what they are going to believe and will entertain no other point of view.
     
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  9. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Exactly.
     
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  10. Drocis the Devious

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    You can, it just becomes much harder for the developers to do because they have to worry about corrupting the database. That makes large changes less likely, and more methodical, as opposed to just wiping everything down and starting from a clean slate with a new database. (like we're doing now)
     
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  11. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    Every online game post launch gets major changes despite being persistent.
     
  12. Blackghost

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    I just hope they will listen to us ( the backers ) because if they do what they want, without listening to the community then.. we're done.
    And lets be honnest, the game is not a huge hit, as we speak.
     
  13. Drocis the Devious

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    This reply isn't aimed at you, Blackghost. Nor is it aimed at anyone in particular.

    They've done a great job listening to backers.

    The biggest problem with listening to backers however is sometimes backers say things like "I don't like it" without actually saying anything relevant as to what they don't like. Just saying "where's the immerssion?" for example, doesn't really help anyone. Making thousands of posts that essentially say the same thing also doesn't help.

    The game is in testing, and instead of making forum posts that don't help, I'd love to see some of these people either A. Write feedback that is actionable and helpful to the development process, or B. get into the game and either test out the design or the implementation. While doing both however you have to realize that the game is still in testing, it's not launched, it's not even scheduled to launch until sometime around the end of this year, and it's not supposed to be in a state where you're going to be super happy with it.

    People don't like hearing any of this, they like playing games and having fun. Again, unfortunately if you're not having fun (or you're not even playing) then what exactly are the developers supposed to do for you? Use magic? I just wish some people would think more about the big picture. Ya know what else isn't a big hit right now? All the games you're not able to play because they haven't been made available to test at this stage in development.
     
  14. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    Agreed on both points.

    I think sometimes they've listened to backers too frequently who've asked for specific things to solve imagined problems without realizing the repercussions. If you express what you're really trying to achieve, let the professional game designers then find the best way to achieve that.

    We've intentionally broken balance and PvP balance to cater to backers who complained about locked vs unlocked decks. Now random decks are at a disadvantage. The initial system was aimed at balance and that balance was sacrificed to appease complaints.

    Likewise complaints can be made more specific and constructive. Instead of saying "we were lied to about how this is an MMO" the thread could have opened more productively with "Sea of Thieves does this particular feature well, and based on that I'd like to see SotA make a specific change."
     
  15. Lord_Darkmoon

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    I always hear the same arguments. "People whine too much!" You know what, I get the impression that some here try to stop others from expressing their opinions so that they can steer the game into the direction they want it to go.
    I explain why I am angry and disappointed yet I always hear that I complain. Yes I do and I do have every right to complain as I paid for a game that is nothing like the one we get, which makes me angry.
    But some here don't want to understnad that. I think this is strategy. They see that the game slowly becomes a totally different game than what was announced. They see that they slowly succeed in making SotA UO 2 with a tacked on offline mode. And then people complain about this and this makes them angry as this might mean that they might not get what they want.
    I am here on this forum since the beginning and I see what is going on here. People who don't agree with the recent development get silenced. They get reported so hopefully they get removed and can't voice their concerns again. I talk to people not only here on this forum but elsewhere and they agree with me. Some people here don't want to hear the opinions of others especially those who are here for the promised SP part.
    People who gave their money for a true and great SP are a bête noire for those who want the game to be UO 2. I am not blind and some here make it very obvious.
     
  16. Sir_Hemlock

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    That's exactly what is happening. I've got your back brother Dark. They've never conned me and never will.
     
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  17. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Though I don't agree with your approach on Immersion I do agree with this.
    Aren't we a 'nice' and 'welcoming' Community?
     
  18. Kara Brae

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    Agree 100%.

    My observation has been that most people (myself included), because of their passion for one side of an argument or the other, do not always give actionable feedback or voice their opinions in a non-combative way.

    If I use hyperbole or veiled insults, I needn't be surprised when others jump on me.

    True anecdote:
    My aunt (then in her 80's) was a staunch supporter of one of the two major U.S. political parties and was extremely unhappy because the President at that time was a member of the opposing party. She met another little old lady in her apartment building elevator and made a comment that the country was going to ruin because of the President. Well, it turned out that the other little old lady was a supporter of the President. My aunt later told me "She hit me with her cane! I was lucky to get out of the elevator alive!"
     
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  19. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Yeah and no.
    Sure you two a right but you are ignoring that we have the bad habit of ignoring, lessen or just Scream down valid complaints or ideas.
    And it's getting worse in my opinion.

    Look @Lord_Darkmoon for example.
    A Solid Defender of the SPOff game. I seldomly share his opinion but non the less i can understand his frustration.
    His ideas and insights get ignored or discussed away since I am part of this project.
    And you are surprised that he isn't as constructive as he was at the beginning?
     
  20. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    I've never told someone they can't express their opinion. I've only encouraged people (or varying opinions and varying desires) to better express their opinions in specific and constructive ways. Everyone should have their voice heard. You tend to repeat a gripe that you were lied to about an MMO aspect and that nothing is being done for the single player portion. Those gripes are not being made in good faith because Richard and Port devs have responded to you directly that they do care about single player and the story, but thee story is coming later.

    I've expressed several times that you will be more effective in getting what you want if you are specific and constructive. But still you rail with vague complaints that are direct accusations and insults at the Port staff while playing the victim/martyr role.

    I'm as big of an advocate for a strong single player story as you will find. But instead of attacking Port, I believe in trying to be specific and constructive in my criticism.

    If you prefer to play a victim card, I guess I can't stop you. I'm sure in a few days I'll see the exact same thread from you again that I've seen you post countless times.
     
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