The Glass is Half Empty - A look inside why people are opposed to Open PvP and Full Loot

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by antalicus, Aug 28, 2013.

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  1. TemplarAssassin

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  2. Coren

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    You know, for all your intended irony, you actually hit it pretty close to the mark, and had there been a viable alternative to UO in its early days, the PK probably would have caused the death of the game.

    This is why the indtroduction of stat loss, murder flags and so on caused a lot of quitting from the prominent PK guilds... yet the subscription numbers to more than doubled (approximately from 100,000 to 250,000, according to my sources) and the introduction of Trammel left Felucca a mostly abandoned wasteland -- clearly that would have been because people love being griefed all the time.

    Even the introduction of vastly greater rewards in Felucca did nothing to repopulate it (double the resources, IIRC, as well as much better treasure hunting at the very least). Last numbers I saw had population numbers around 40:1. Certainly, people craved the "fun" of being ganked.

    -- Coren
     
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  3. Baene Thorrstad

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    For you maybe, but not for everyone. For some, PvP plays no role whatsoever. For some PvP IS roleplay. For some its the hour long conversations with other players whil ein character, for others is simply socializing at the bank. The beauty of the original UO was that it didn't pigeon hole you into a specific way of ropleplaying, inherently. Oh players themselves did that to no end, because everyone has their own opinion on what, exactly, is roleplaying. But to say they re equally important to everyone is simply an incorrect statement.



    You mistake what I mean by deep and enjoyable. I don't mean the number of skills or spells, or combos, or tricks, etc. I mean make it "fun", not complicated. UO's combat, in alot of ways, was just "fun". It was simple, and it was, perhaps even simplistic, but it was fun. WoW combat? Thats the UI Game to me, not fun at all. I can't even watch the actual action because I'm watching all my cooldowns. Same goes for most of the current games. So, I actually meant what you argued with, fun and enjoyable, not bogged down and UI Game based




    I wasn't calling you extreme. I was calling the polar opposite of "No PvP at all! It ruins my enjoyment even if I'm separated from it!" extreme. You know, those that say the entire world should be kill anyone, anytime, and leave it to the players to sort it out theselves viewpoint. I hadn't thought you were in that camp...

    As to telling people how they should find their enjoyment in a game and that they are "playing it wrong"...I think that speaks for itself.

    I'm pretty darn far from the Liberal Line in most things, but I do believe in common courtesy and respect, and you showed zero of either quality in your post in my opinion, and went one up by repeatedly putting him down. I'm all for voicing opinions and constructive critisism and contributing to a discussion, but that wasn't what that was in my opinion. You may disagree, others may disagree *shrugs* just my opinion.

    PS: I don't think his statement was any better, in case you think I'm taking sides here, I'm just responding to you since you were the one who decided to get all offended and blow your top.
     
  4. DEricF

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  5. Mystic

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    Guys, I'm only going to say this once in here: there are a lot of people with a lot of different opinions. We all have differing opinions on what we would like to see in SotA. Regardless of what you believe, respect the opinions of others and discuss things civilly. Name calling and over-aggressive posts are not permitted. If you can't have a discussion civilly, take a breather for a few days and walk away from these threads.
     
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  6. Silent Strider

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    (Edit: The forum ate my post, I hope I'm not confusing anyone with this edit to put back the actual content I intended.)

    PvP is not a requirement for roleplay. In fact, most roleplayers I know don't use much, if any, PvP while role playing.

    Even when PvP is useful for role playing, we find it better to use fully consensual PvP. In other words, while the characters have a disagreement and fight, the players actually consent in having the fight.

    Not to mention that, in about every role playing group I've taken part or interacted with, any kind of non-consensual PvP was frowned upon to such an extent that players engaging in it risked being expelled from the group, with the GM potentially reversing the actions of the expelled player's character on top of that.
     
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  7. TemplarAssassin

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    PvP is a requirement for roleplay. In fact, most roleplayers I know PvP a lot while role playing.
     
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  8. MagiK

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    I believe you did not get the point of my message. In any event I posted an OPINION, I am free to have mine, you are free to have yours. You seem to be very woefully misinfored in your opinion that to Rp you need PvP, Ive been gaming for more than 30 years we had RP loooong before computer games offered PvP. But. I have been admonished not to post my opinions in such a manner so I shall keep my opinion about the subject to myself from here on out. I did have one question...did you really mean people were not free to have an opinion that did not promote PvP?

    Since PvP is consensual in SoTA, I see no reason not to have the functionality in the game. It lets people play the way they want to despite my personal opinion on the concept.
     
  9. Vyrin

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    But cats are CLASSIC PvPers

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Myth2

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    I don't mean cats in general. We just can't be tipping our hats to known pedophile networks on the SotA forums.
     
  11. MagiK

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    That speaks to your lack of scope, not the experience of MOST Role Players. Again 30+ years of RP proves that you can RP without any sort of PvP.
     
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  12. Vyrin

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    Ok? wut? I am not getting it. Am I that clueless or naive?
     
  13. Myth2

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    Neither mate. This is practically ancient history by now, so let's just forget about cats and I'll pretend I never said anything. Some things are better left buried.
     
  14. TemplarAssassin

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    Well..

    Maybe that speaks to your lack of scope? 8+ years of RP prove that you can not RP without any sort of nonconsensual PvP.

    Nope. I did not mean that. Did you mean that I can't express my opinion if it's opposite to yours?


    Mordecai,


    Huh?? Pedophile networks?
     
  15. MagiK

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    Im not sure english is your first language...you seem to not understand the words you use.
    Could you explain the logic behind your comment?

    I fail to see anywhere that I questioned your right to your own opinion.



    Yeah they lost me with that one too.

    Some really good research has been done about the need of some people to have the PvP experience. It wasn't conclusive or all inclusive but it did suggest that the whole concpet was a manifestation of sociopathic tendancies. Where the subject did not derive satisfaction in overcoming non-sentient NPC's but only derived pleasure/satisfaction in knowing they were acting against live human subjects and in many cases against said subjects will. SoTA will not be this way as PvP is only for consenting players, past games had no such mechanic. It will be interesting to see how things shake out.
     
  16. TemplarAssassin

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    It's my 3rd.
     
  17. Baene Thorrstad

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    Role play absolutely can happen without non-consensual PvP. I've done it, Majick has done it, I know hundreds of peoples, personally, who have done it. This is not in question and cannot be in question.

    What is in question is what level, amount, frequency, or rules or restrictions around Non-consensual PvP each individual desires. That varies as much as anything, and it's rare any two individuals have the exact same views.
     
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  18. Mystic

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    RP can happen either way, however, I've found that RP is magnified in depth when there are forms of PVP involved. For instance, with the addition of Trammel, many RPers simply became "God Characters" because they knew there was no recourse for actions. Suddenly everyone was an important hero in their own mind rather than a simple tradesman or sword for hire because in order to prove themselves, they had to go to Felucia which very few people in the RP community was willing to do. Now that is not to say that all people did this, but I've found that the grand majority wanted to be more than they were prior to there being non-consensual PVP where as open PVP helped keep a balance as far as character development went.
     
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  19. Baene Thorrstad

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    Agreed, though you do have the other side of the coin as well. Those who can PvP well then think that makes them someone important from a role play perspective as well and so use PvP as crutch when they cannot roleplay a situation to their liking. People like to be more than they are, it's a natural thing to do, regardless of circumstance.

    Neither situation is inherently "bad", but there are two sides to every coin.

    I happen to agree with you that in most circumstances, "some form" of PvP adds to the immersion and enjoyment of a given situation, but I will in no way say that is always the case, and is some cases as well causes more issues than it solves.

    As I've said, I'm in the middle, and I hope they are able to meld PvP in such a way as to be enjoyable and additive to RP, yet not become detrimental to it.
     
  20. Nerull

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    We are the BLOODROCK CLAN from Ultima Online Greatlakes, an Orcish Clan that established in oct 1998. We have the record for most WARS on any shard UO history.
    We are very strict role-players. We've been pvping and roleplaying a very long time its our way of life. We hope to see that happen again on SOTA.
    Roleplaying without ''dewd guild'' enemys would be horrible. We want war We want Enemys, We want them to be able to loot us and greif us & we want to plant our axes into their skulls.

    As a seasoned Roleplayer. I hope to see the wild wild west happen again like in early Ultima Online. Attack who you want to attack. Loot who you want to loot. The FREEDOM to Do whatever you want to do.
     
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