Critical hit changes (R34) and the upcoming interruption change (R35).

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chris, Oct 20, 2016.

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  1. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    With all due respect, there is much less yelling when we have an idea (in advance) what's coming and why....

    Just sayin'........ ;)
     
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  2. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

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    Looks good, great code (bug) find and great fix. Gets you 10% closer to making me happy as a melee. May not be much but its a good step!
     
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  3. Sixclicks

    Sixclicks Avatar

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    Thank you very much for clarifying this. I personally love seeing the numbers.

    And I'll be sure to be there and ready to yell at you about the resistance changes lol. Just kidding... or maybe not.
     
  4. Archer

    Archer Avatar

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    @Chris, thanks for the explanations for how a critical event is calculated. Could you explain the mechanics for what a critical does when it happens? Does it just do double the 'rolled' damage?
     
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  5. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

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    Ahhhhhhhh so the skill level determines not only the dmg amount but the crit chance as well. (Did I miss that somewhere in the instructions?)

    *unlocks skills* *opens combat deck menu* *shuffle shuffle*
     
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  6. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    When you do a normal hit, it calculates the min and max damage and does a random roll between min and max.
    For Critical hits it does max to max*2.
     
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  7. GreyMouser Skye

    GreyMouser Skye Avatar

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    Not to confuse people, and not to put words in your mouth/keyboard, but then it removes the mitigation for buff and/or armor from the target so you may see a crit value below the max.
     
  8. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Correct. As I implied above though, when someone lands a critical hit, it cannot be blocked, dodged, parried, or turn into a glancing blow! Armor, skills, and defensive spells still applies though so you could see less than max damage.
     
  9. Archer

    Archer Avatar

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    That's what I suspected/expected. It makes for some pretty terrible criticals ;-) i.e. hitting for 30+ points normal, followed by 6 points critical. Doesn't feel at all critical. If I might make a suggestion (I'm going to anyhow), how about criticals do max normal damage plus the normal randomised range, this way they're always special.
     
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  10. Koldar

    Koldar Avatar

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    @Chris I miss your technical posts. This is the best thread I've seen in ages!
     
  11. Sixclicks

    Sixclicks Avatar

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    Sorry to bug you again @Chris , but I forgot to ask... how does Spell Critical Chance on armor bonuses work? Does this work the same way as with weapons where it's a percentage increase of you spell critical chance (from that formula you shared) or is it additive on top of the calculated spell critical chance?
     
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  12. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Actually, I'm not sure but I'll investigate. And yes, I believe it might also be using the old math and need to be fixed. :/
     
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  13. Spinok

    Spinok Avatar

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    I completely dont understand balance logic, you nerfed archer and fighters and give huge bonus to mages who are already number one in all facets of the game.
     
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  14. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    If something is broken, do you avoid fixing it just because something else is unbalanced? This was simply a bug that needed to be addressed because it was preventing people from even using defenses. Magic vs melee damage will be fixed in R36 when we actually implement the long overdue resistance changes. Melee will probably come up a tiny bit during that and Magic will probably go down a bit because there will now be ways to resist it.
     
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  15. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    Thank you Chris> This is fantastic to get your explanation of how it all works, and it is quite techy, but that's ok I love it still. ;). So my question is how does this support the melee class, will it address the miss, miss, miss of melee hits verses my using the fist spells like ice fist and the others which are not missing. I seem to hit with these, which is fine, but is the missing on the melee hits like crushing blow, break armor, body slam being effected by the new math and could you explain a little?
     
  16. MrBlight

    MrBlight Avatar

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    Right but the bonuse actually added from Crit gear doesnt really make much sense to run compared to pure dmg no? I can get 20% in dmg increase, instead of 25% in Crit modifier... Whats going to do more dmg in 1000 shots?
    Isnt the dmg boost from gear additive? ( So supple gear right now im at give or take 5.5-6% Crit chance boosting) And if i simply switch to Hard, instead of supple.. that puts me at 11%? 12% bonuse dmg. So with the calculations currently.. at 100 dex.. 5% vital.. 5% base.. it ACTUALLY adds 1% crit chance, as opposed to adding 11% dmg.
    Or am i completly mis understanding here.

    5% base.. + 5% vital.. + (100 dex so 100/1000 = 10% for ranged ) 20% base.
    Even running a pine bow at additional 15%.. 5% from armor thats 20 X 1.2 = 24% crit chance ?

    Or i could run .. 5% Base.. 5% vital.. +100 Dex.. = 20% base.. And run +15-20% dmg per shot increase.. in exchange for a 4% crit diff? Doesnt this make supple gear.. kinda garbage? Or is the base dmg added up off a base like crit is? (cause from my testing.. it seems like its a blunt increase)

    @Chris
    As for the *Bows can do some bigger hits* its true.. you know if you dont count Coup De Gras.. And .. fighters can get 100 dex easy just as well.. the dif being that they have a 2nd base passive .. so the dex differnce ( ranged being /1000 and melee / 2000 ) is actually eliminated? that extra 5% at 100 dex.. is 60 points in Vital for blades.. which ranged doesnt have in first place.
    So dont melee end up with much higher crit chance ? ( And this is neglecting the sheer fact that the base crit chance on melee weapons is larger ) . Seems like crit archer is a terrible option now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
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  17. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

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    Really curious about the magic resistance changes... Will they be connected to attunement or will it be a new skill to level like magic resistance in UO?
     
  18. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Will the concentration skill also effect being interrupted using say Rapid Fire?
     
  19. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    This is hard to say exactly. The 20% damage bonus will definitely do more dps in the long haul. 25% boost to crit chance will vary with your base crit chance but always be less. The wild card though is that because of how the math works, increasing your crit chance decreases your miss chance and chance to get a lesser blow. For PVE 20% damage is always going to be better. For PVP, where players might be blocking, dodging, parrying, and have damage avoidance that causes glancing blows, the crit chance might net more damage in the end. Also, 1 big hit greater than 2 small hits in PVP as it helps finish a target. In PVE the 1 big hit might mean a lot more wasted damage vs the 2 small hits.

    So, not clear cut but likely go damage for max damage over time in PVE.
     
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  20. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    Basically that was the point I was stressing above. Since the expected damage increase of crit is capped at 200% (assuming worse case of zero min, average damage would be 1/2 max while average crit is 3/2 max) so unless your weapon + dex bonus + innates is greater or equal to 50, it is always better to take a percent of damage over a percent of crit up, and since no reasonable player will ever get the base over 50, damage is always better, so supple always loses to hardened leather.
     
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