On Fairness

I'm definitely more happy with the game than unhappy. But these kinds of issues should be discussed to look for potential resolutions to player dissatisfaction. In this case, I don't think there is a resolution, but hopefully there is a lesson learned (and they have been taking out players with really overt abuses of exploits).

Just for the purpose of humor, wouldn't all of us who think RMT is bad for games just love to see a wipe and see all the RMTer's seriously screwed? It would just be amazing to let them know that it's actually intended to be a game and not some disgusting pixel commodities market that they can leech off of developer efforts. Maybe? Maybe not. (Maybe just a little ). But filed under, 'ain't never gonna happen'.

 

Sadly, I think the RMT's clients would be the ones getting screwed. But it would be interesting/fun to see the forums explode. *grabs popcorn and cackles evilly* >8^)

 

Indeed. I hate to see the way RMT has crept into games. It's all through Star Citizen, which I adore. But the whole concept of limited ships (that still appear for sale at regular intervals) being sold externally for 25% extra or more, is nuts.

 

RMT is cancer and incredibly destructive to any game so I don't really care how they feel.

 

the concept of "fair" is not now, nor has it ever been, a guiding principle within this game or community.

 

What does RMT mean?

As an old guy playing a young mans game all I can say about fairness is you pick and chose your battles. Keep your peepers on your side of the fence. When you log in leave the real world behind and play the game. If your not having fun find out why and fix it. Otherwise your just letting your limited time hear on God's green earth go to waste. Someday you may wish your fingers and mind worked well enough that you could enjoy playing this game with the friends you make.

 

Remote Maintenance Technician
Registered Massage Therapist
Really Mad Termite
and a few other fun ones...

But in this context:
Real Money Trading in regards to selling game stuff.

 

Amen. And I wish more of my old friends were still around to enjoy this game with me.

 

RMTs are Real Money Transactions. In the Star Citizen example, people pledge 'X' dollars and get a spaceship. This might be limited in some way, or come with some perk like 'Lifetime Insurance' and once that sale is done, people are doing a massive trade in selling ships and other items for real life money at a massive mark up.

Obviously there is a trade in items here in SotA, and it's happening in other games, too. It's a bad news situation and a lot of people don't like it.

While your advice is well meaning, it's not really a response to why RMTs are bad news, or why people don't like them. They're a whole different kettle of fish.

 

Star Citizen doesn't support RMT. It's not allowed in their forums and it's against their TOS. They turn a blind eye because so much of their income is generated from countries that have laws supporting RMT of digital assets. And if you haven't kept up with the Star Citizen grey market, it thrives because you can get all the same ships sold in the Star Citizen store at a discount in the player market... A select few ships trade for a small profit between people that enjoy trading.

RMT is so much a part of SotA that a very vocal majority of backers insist it was always part of the plan and is as much a part of the game as any other mechanic.

 

Star Citizen basically sells flying castles that are bristling with (working) guns and weaponry. They have to draw the line at RMT otherwise all restraints on game balance would be gone. SOTA sells deco and residences as its form of control.

Just imagine what would happen if the cross promotional Star Citizen blimp were sold here with working cannons. But that kinda stuff is par for the course in SC - different system with different compromises.

 

Thanks for the reply's ...and good luck with trying to figure out what is fair or not fair....

 

i think it would be fair for the SC blimp to have cannons, if they can only shoot other blimps...or if there are ground cannons that anyone can use (when flagged pvp)

 

Star Citizen says it doesn't support RMT, yet gives players the tools to engage in buying and selling external to their system. If they were, as we like to say here, "fair dinkum" about not supporting it, they'd ditch the tools.

ie: They'd make it so that if you bought a ship, you couldn't give it to anyone else. Ever. Full-stop. Period. Want to buy a ship for someone's birthday? You should have to buy it and it goes directly onto their account, etc, etc.

As for, "A select few ships trade for a small profit between people that enjoy trading." come on, mate. ALL the ships, so long as they have lifetime insurance (LTI), are VERY sellable on the market. It's not just a select few.

(For you non-Star Citizen fans, for the longest time, the only time to get a ship with LTI is in its initial sale. It might remain in the store, or return to the store from time to time, but it will never ever return with LTI, hence the rarity.)

But I agree, a select few are desirable for other reasons -- such as not being sold in the store all the time or perhaps even sold only once, like the military skin for the Hornet -- but all of them are desirable for their LTI, always.

Full disclaimer -- I adore Star Citizen, but I'll always call out stuff I don't like. For one, I don't like RMT in any game and for two, I don't like how Star Citizen says, "Don't do that..." to players, whilst providing the tools to do it.

 

What are you talking about? Maybe you just haven't been keeping up with Star Citizen - LTI is a joke now - if you own a ship that doesn't have LTI you just haven't been keeping up and their gifting policy is such that a ship can only be gifted one time before it's account bound. Their buyback (unmelt) policy works in such a way that if credit is used for a buyback - that type of purchase is only allowed once per calendar quarter and is only good for one thing and the item is then also locked to the account. They're a business so they of course allow people to make purchases with new money . You should catch up with the game.. a lot has changed in these past few years. Star Citizen makes it extremely difficult for RMT re-sellers. I imagine if it wasn't for so many different countries around the world and their modern laws that protect citizens that buy and sell digital goods by recognizing ownership of digital goods and supporting RMT trades of digital assets as a legal right, SC would likely put a full stop to everything. What country do you live in? If you have such a problem with RMT, maybe you should take it up with your local government. For a comparison, if SotA locked down RMT the way Star Citizen did... the internet would break.

 

I've been keeping up perfectly well with Star Citizen and if anyone wants to visit the Star Citizen Trades group on Reddit, they'll see plenty of buying and selling going on. RMT resellers are doing just fine out there.

As for, "if you own a ship that doesn't have LTI you just haven't been keeping up", all my ships have LTI -- thanks -- because I have been keeping up. Even though you bizarrely keep trying to suggest that I haven't?!?

Through cross chassis upgrades, people can get an older chassis with LTI and turn it into whatever they want with LTI, but the number of lower-end chassis with LTI is finite and the pool hasn't solved it for everyone.

Of course it would be remiss if I didn't agree with you that, yes, there have been policies brought in a year or so back that made RMT hard(er), however, people can still do it and, per my opening line, they are still doing it bigtime.

I don't know why you are so one-eyed about trying to prove me wrong on this. Again, anyone can go to Reddit and see the trades happening right now. They haven't been slowed one bit through anything Star Citizen has done.

In fact, I encourage anyone with an interest in this topic to visit that Reddit. Don't listen to Duke Avery; don't even listen to me. Visit that community and observe the RMT happening for yourselves. It's the simplest way.

 

I'm not trying to prove anything - your accounting of how SC player markets work just sounds dated... what you're latched onto is how things were a couple years ago. The dynamic of the player market in Star Citizen has changed dramatically. Star Citizen has concepted multiple low cost LTI ships over the years - and more are on the way. Everyone has access to LTI now. LTI is anything but finite... LTI stopped being a selling point about a year ago I suppose... it's desirable, but not coveted and not even a big deal. Starter equipment on any ship is going to need to be upgraded - that's the gold sink in the game and it's that add-on insurance that no one has that will provide the necessary gold sink to keep the game interesting. Anyway, we're getting off topic... I thought people were talking about RMT in SotA?

Now that everyone is read into how Star Citizen tries to limit and discourage RMT... what are your thoughts on how things are done here?

 

I think a bunch of stuff was sold for too much money in the first place and there's now a frankly bizarre RMT market where the challenge for people with significant holdings will be to stoke the fire, but not be left holding the baby.

Can you imagine having thousands, maybe even 10s of thousands of dollars worth of stock in a game that falls over? I think there's a better than average chance it will happen. So RMT folks are gambling bigtime over the medium term.

 

But that's what RMT always is. Gambling. Taking chances. Missing opportunities. Every RMT worth his reputation knows that. The problem here are the half time RMTers that expected to make big margins or go away with an epic RoI.

 

By the end of 2015 I had owned every ship offered by SC less the Scythe. I've reduced my hangar to just a few ships now (Javelin, 890, Polaris, a few fighters, etc... Phoenix). Star Citizen is gearing up for 2.6 and a series of holiday sales... They're teetering on 130M in raised pledge funds right now (plus what they get from private investors) - they may even see 200M if the holiday sales go well. I'd be surprised if they broke 200M by the end of the year, but not shocked by it. I don't think SC is going to go belly up - I think it'll be a game I play for next ten years.

The RMT market in Star Citizen unwittingly favors players that can circumvent VAT. Traders that push money gifting in place of invoicing can buy ships with cash through the official store below cost - flip the currency and sell in the player market for cost (in US dollars) and leave with a profit. This is a byproduct of the world economy and has nothing to do with how SC manages their store or the state of the game. And a big reason why moderators at the Reddit Grey market insist on traders using invoices for trades. The ships you see being sold at a discount aren't charity - the sellers at the very least are breaking even - most are still making a profit but how that's possible is a little too deep for this thread.

Currency flip sales are definitely happening here in SotA as well. It happened with pledge sales and it's happening with in-game commodities and especially add-on store rares. RMT isn't going anywhere and there are many that would argue that without room for player markets and RMT, these kickstarter games that are finding success would have never seen the light of day.