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Updated Lot Deed Price Information Discontinued

Discussion in 'House & Lot Listings (WTS/WTB)' started by Bayard, Dec 9, 2016.

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  1. Bayard

    Bayard Avatar

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    Information as of 0900 EDT, January 12, 2017

    Lot deed sales have picked up to pre-holiday levels with sales in all categories except TF POT deeds.

    We finally have enough information on sale prices to remove the ask prices and make the chart easier to read!


    One of the keys to a thriving marketplace is having a published range of prices. Advantages include:
    - Buyers knowing they are not inadvertently overpaying
    - Sellers knowing they are not inadvertently pricing too low or too high
    - Increased sales by reducing the fear of the unknown (in this case the unknown value of a lot deed)
    - Establishing the reputation, credibility and stability of the marketplace

    I started watching lot deed prices when I was thinking of purchasing a POT. Once I purchased it, I started documenting lot deed price information to identify good prices of lot deeds I wanted to buy for the Outlander Welcome Center (OWC) near Soltown. As I collected the information, I realized others could benefit as well and it could also help establish the lot deed marketplace as a fair place to do business for both buyers and sellers.

    This information goes back to mid November 2016 and only includes what was published in the forum or PMed to me and paid in dollars, not IGG or COTOs. The prices do not take into consideration water placement, location of a placed lot, inclusion of a home or other considerations. These affect the price of a lot deed but are beyond the scope of this project. It also doesn't include prices only discussed via PM. If you are willing to PM me the results of a private sale, I will add the information and keep your identity private.

    Good (lot deed) Hunting,
    Johnkirk Bayard

    All information presented is general in nature and only intended as a guide for average lot deed sale prices. Click on the link to see the total amount of lot deeds advertised/sold on the Add-On Store; https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=9085#tab-property_deeds.

    Tax Free Anywhere Lot Deed
    [Size] [# Sold] [Avg. Sold $]
    R 8 288
    V 11 602
    T 4 1109
    C 0
    K 3 3433

    Taxed Anywhere Lot Deed
    [Size] [# Sold] [Avg. Sold $]
    R 7 111
    V 4 153
    T 1 300
    C 0
    K 0

    Tax Free POT Lot Deed
    [Size] [# Sold] [Avg. Sold $]
    R 2 175
    V 6 279
    T 0
    C 0
    K 0

    Taxed POT Lot Deed
    [Size] [# Sold] [Avg. Sold $]
    R 9 26
    V 12 64
    T 1 100
    C 4 265
    K 0

    POT w/overland access
    Size [# Sold] [Avg. Sold $]
    Holdfast 1 2500
    CxVillage 1 3200

    POT without overland access

    Size [# Sold] [Avg. Sold $]
    Holdfast 1 1150
    CxVillage
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  2. Gideon Thrax

    Gideon Thrax Avatar

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    The pricing you have listed for place anywhere Row deeds looks really high. I've been listing these in the 120$ range and bundling with NPC lots for under 200$. Keep deeds are a hard sell - they've sold in the 3700-4000 range that I've seen recently and I truly thought the bottom of that market was 3700 and then saw one listed for 3500 - don't know if it sold or not.

    On the tax free deeds, something for buyers to note are the differences between Founder and Benefactor deeds. Benefactor deeds are steady selling for less than Founder deeds. The POT deed market is just wrecked - POT deeds should be removed from the add-on store immediately.

    There was an overland Metropolis that just sold for 5000$ and it came with all the add-on homes included. Not long ago there was a Metropolis listed for 3500$, but I don't think it came with any add-on homes.
     
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  3. Bayard

    Bayard Avatar

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    Duke Avery,
    Great comments and thank you for the additional info. I'll add some to the post.
    Agree. It's what the seller posted and only being a sample of one, not yet reliable. The averages will become more accurate as I add data.
     
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  4. Frederick Glasgow

    Frederick Glasgow Avatar

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    I think those sales of both of the metropolis towns if i remember correctly were at a time of a financial hardship for people, so I don't view this to be the norm, they were looking for a fast sale for real life financial crisis.
     
  5. Gideon Thrax

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    I suppose that's possible, I let go of an overland crossroads for less than what I paid for it because I wasn't doing much with it. I was able to justify letting it go for less than what I paid because I sold a couple of the homes that came with it. It's a safe speculation to make that even an overland Metropolis selling at 3500$ can be a profitable sale for the seller if all the homes were sold. Basically every POT sold with add-on homes came with Twin Spires... and the Metropolis comes with four of them, plus eight additional homes.

    4 Add On Store Village or Row Houses
    4 Add On Store Town, Village, or Row Houses
    4 Add On Store City**, Town, Village, or Row Houses

    3500$ seems a reasonable and fair price when you consider what people are paying for the add-on homes. 5000$ for an overland Metro+ homes went to a lucky buyer for sure - I don't think I'd call it a hardship sale though when you can get 100% (or more) of your investment back.
     
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  6. Sir Leonard

    Sir Leonard Localization Team

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    Guess they aren't doing this until the threshold of 70% of occupancy of POTs is reached. Then it all comes to those 30% they are giving away in raffles, just as it happened with place-anywhere deeds.
     
  7. Duncan O. McDermott

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    What would be a good price to pay for a Benfactor TF PA row lot?
     
  8. Lesni

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    Last ones I saw traded were
    Nov 12 $280
    Nov 13 $300
    Founder row
    Nov 15 for $275

    FWIW
     
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  9. Duncan O. McDermott

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  10. Bom

    Bom Avatar

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    The failure of this list is that Bayard is posting the ask prices rather than the actual sale prices. I informed him this was a very inaccurate way of recording prices as anyone can post whatever price they want, but that doesn't mean they will actually get it. A prime example is averaging in a price of $2500 for a tax free town lot deed when nobody pays even half of that for one.
    Since he is still doing this nonsense after I pointed out the flaw of doing so, I guess I'm going to have to unlike the topic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  11. Sophi

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    While I appreciate the effort the OP has gone to to gather the information, the small sample size available means the averages are sort of meaningless. Also it would definitely help potential sellers to know what the lot deeds are actually selling for rather than what they are posted for. I would really love to get $2,500 for my Founder Town Lot Deed, but is that really likely? Based on your numbers folks might try posting theirs at that amount - further skewing the average upward.

    As a potential seller (I am certainly considering selling the deed I mentioned) I would really, really love it if folks reported what they were actually selling stuff for!
     
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  12. Bayard

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    Bom, Sophi, et al.,

    You bring up valid points;
    - The small sample size will improve as we have add more information and results
    - I'm now recording sale prices and providing an average. Other community members are beginning to PM me with their results to add to the deck.
    - At Bom's suggestion, the $2500 town price was removed as an anomaly and the numbers recalculated

    We may also roll this into a Google Sheet which will be easier to follow and can be analyzed to show trends.

    Cheers,
    JkB
     
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  13. Sophi

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    that's great Bayard, thank you! :)
     
  14. Mekong

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    And how exactly are you getting the sale price when, for example, all my negotiations have been done privately and no sale prices are posted anywhere?
     
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  15. Titania Xylia

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    Personally, I appreciate going through the postings and getting the ask prices. It's very helpful.
     
  16. Metalocalypze

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    A few accurate deed sale prices to add to your averages OP

    Taxed POT Row Deed $25
    TF POT Village Deed $250
    TF Anywhere Row Deed $270
    TF Anywhere Village Deed $550
    TF Anywhere Village Deed (Founder) $550
    TF Anywhere Town Deed $1000 - $1050
     
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  17. Mekong

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    And again I ask. How do we know these are accurate? This thread is misleading and unnecessary. It should be removed not pinned.
     
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  18. Ben_Hroth

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    @Metalocalypze and others, I am not a big market mover by any means, but I do not discourage @Bayard from a thread like this.

    There are obvious shortfalls with relying on others to report prices, but at the end of the day this is a small community.

    And I think that's at the crux of all this. A small community can easily be swayed by larger forces and imbalances.

    I do not consider myself suspicious but @Umuri has put forward a lot of evidence that the COTO market is strongly manipulated by a few folks, and after looking at the early raffle results I think it's clear that the imbalance in gold reported by devs after persistence has propogated into both the COTO market and real estate market.

    I do not think you need an economics degree to see that us little people do not have an efficient market for COTOs and lot deeds.

    Transparency per se only seeks to remove the arbitrage and outlier deals which usually end with one (buyer or seller) doing exceptionally well and the other (corresponding seller or buyer) doing exceptionally poorly. Instead we all smooth into more of an understood rate. That doesn't mean we police or do due diligence for others. Yes, there may be price manipulation by some shady folks who misreport, but we are a small enough community I trust many of the sellers and buyers here. And at the end of the day, you have to have a willing buyer and seller - no one is going to be forced into a manipulated price.

    Big picture - we want our smaller community to grow, and 'smoothing out' the spikes going on in real estate might reduce the criticisms at our gate (cf: reddit /r/shroudoftheavatar) of everything being hard for a newer player to afford/engage.

    Ben
     
  19. Cairo Hayden

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    I have sold two founder town deeds for $1200 each with no questions or negotiations and I've sold 3 founder village deeds at $550, 650, and 650 as well and settled for 550 on the village deed because there was another listed at the time for that. Hope this helps!
     
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  20. Ben_Hroth

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    @Bayard, I will PM you a few prices I was involved in, thanks!
     
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