The upcoming telethon rewards are very … unrewarding

Nicely stated Arkah!

+1

 

Are you really happy with the idea that after 4 years they still dont have details settled for many core aspects of the game, or if they do that those core aspects are still subject to change at a whim?

Look at most other kickstarter or crowdfunded games being developed and this game is very lacking in direction and clarity by comparison. That's just a fact, and while I still have hope for the game, I also realize that blindly cheerleading them and coming up with apologetics for every criticism is not at all helpful.

 

The time spent doesnt matter to me, no. Im intrigued seeing how they are willing to change some aspects of the game entirely based on player feedback (designing around customer suggestions).

I dont look at other kickstarter games cuz it doesnt really help anything to compare them. The intended goals have been shared and the development is very transparent.

If the list of facts provided seems like an apology, that is not my intention.

 

It would be cool if there were rewards related to new areas or models or things in the adventuring realm, as opposed to straight up role-play or decoration. Things like the Throne of Bone that you earn via a quest.

 

We have very different outlook and expectations on crowdfunded games then, which is fine too

 

Im only expecting what theyve said we can expect. But thats likely just a result of not comparing this to other projects.

 

I personally dont accept the fact that people think this or that is incomplete since the inception of the game 4 years ago. I take the game as it is today with the money they brought in for development today (sure, if they had 150 million, all features would probably be in) as well as "am I having fun in this game". To me, I am very happy. Even Dark Starr would comment on this "dont lawyer me bro". I think the dev group has by and large been very upfront with what is going into the game and what it would take (in asset time) to build systems.

I also disregard the comment that they "dont have details many core aspects of the game". I think most are pretty clear at this point and even more so relating to the fact that they believe that 80% of the game is done and in normal development cycles, this is where the most change will occur.

This also goes back to the failure of this crowdfunded idea that the donors can play the game though development whom obviously widely have no concept of the fact that they are playing a game in development that is changing radically. Also that naturally over time they will tighten up systems that were "loose" before (such as giving out XP). Its seems like the vast majority of complainers live in teh moment NOW and dont reason through that its alpha and will be different in 6 months for the the better or for the worse (in their own opinions).

If there are 50 major systems in this game... every single person has an different opinion about each of those 50 systems here and widely disagree as to how each of those systems should run. Can you understand how that must feel to a developer trying to make the game? That is what happens on these forums. You clearly feel that a lot of them are wrong now, I have the opinion that yes, some are wrong but clearly not as many as you.

 

I strongly disagree, and I don't find the game to be much fun at it's current state. I also don't think they have been very upfront about what is going into the game or long term plans for core systems. I say this due to comparisons to other crowdfunded projects that I have been and currently am involved with that have raised less money and are doing much more with it. It's subjective, I know we won't agree on it, but my bad opinion of the game is just as valid as your good opinion of the game

I fully understand how games develop over time and what access during the development entails. Do you honestly think that SotA is going to change radically from this point on? The core systems are in place and will not be changing. Balancing and polish and uncloning and such will take place but no new systems or core mechanics will be introduced, not with the game being persistent and as far into early access as they are.

That is what worries me, it is going to be hard for them to do things like making the grinding fun or meaningful, making pvp meaningful, giving any reason to specialize characters, making the virtues and storyline meaningful to the game, etc. etc.

I'm not trying to be really down on the game or the devs, but for example when you look how much time they spent on building and hyping up the seiges, and then look at what we got when they finally went into the game and how boring and pointless they are... well it does not bode well for future additions that are supposed to add fun to the game.

Blood bay scene will be a good test of exactly this... with them hyping it and spending a bunch of time on developing it, hopefully it will not just be a shardfall with housing, with no reason to go there and no reason to pvp there anymore than the other empty pvp zones.

Edit: and to bring this back around to the original topic, this stuff I said above is why I and many others get tired of the constant cash grabs of the telethons and the constant addition of pixel crack and addon store items... because it seems like all the cash that has already been raised is not being used for much to improve the game. (again, something like blood bay will be a good test of this for me and if it turns out awesome i'll be happy to be wrong about the money not being put to good use)

 

Unlike most people on these forums, I totally accept the fact that my opinions are my own and that other people have their own opinions on the game, as I described in my example at the end of that post.

 

*shrug*

Like i said, Preachyr has more invested in the game then me money - wise. But i still have a tad more faith in the dev team then he does.
While i disagree and wont even go into with my points to elaborate more on my actual questions ( Yes i watch every telethon and read literally every post on this forum )..
It still really comes down too the next few releases for me, and im sure many others.

I think most the PVP interested people have strayed off, and i think bloodbay is going to be the make or break to really keep the rest around much longer.
I just think theres better things those art designers could be doing then working on telethon prizes. I think that yes, more funding is always a good thing (didnt say it wasnt) but i also think the amount of money that has been put forth already, there needs to be more. Stand alone, SOTA isnt up to par for me. Its lacking in to many areas.
That being SAID, its the idea that those lackings are still coming is why i still have faith in the game. The game has some serious potential. And this next year is really make or break between having an actual succesful game, or a game that manages to keep afloat by purely devoted fanbase.

Im invested for a while yet, i just hope that they DO hit some of the expectations.

This patch im interested to see blood bay, for the sheer fact they have put SO much time into it. And frankly , preach is right, the sieges were a MAJOR let down, for the amount of hype that went into them. And now i look at them more as a foundation for what *MIGHT * come from them in the future.

We are super critical of the game, yet we are still here ( something to remember ) But we also have played, and DO play a lot of games. We also crowd source a lot, while following the development of a lot. Your perfectly allowed to be happy with the current state of where they got with their funding, because you dont watch other developments. But doesnt mean we wont be way more critical for our dollar value.

Anyways - If for w.e reason there is guys that ONLY do telethon stuff and cant do artwork for actual in game stuff during the month .....
id say maybe get some early representations of player owned vendors as a reward. That is close but unique to the actual planned release. That might be a good one
( A vendor that looks unique to the current ones, and is more close to end release goals, but retains their unique ness to the ones in the future ) - if that makes sense. (limited edition vendor modles )

 

Blood Bay isn't going to make or break PvP. Significant work on the mechanics of PvP are what will make it worthwhile. As it is, anyone who is flagged is potentially your enemy and it's a griefer's paradise. It's simply not fun.

 

As a developer, I couldnt even imagine working this way. I cant imagine any developer who would be down for it either. This sounds more like the be-all, end-all of distraction that prevents anything from getting done.

I thought the whole schtick behind these prizes was that theyre "cheap" in terms of development and deployment? Like, its very little overhead for them to get them available for rewards / add-on store, thats why theres so much "repetition" and similarity between the kinds of items.

 

@Black Tortoise - well some can without feeling distracted - this links help you imagine that there are developers who can.
Looks like they get things done also.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM8Uz9REHvcqtIbB_OvV48DP1VCcr9tmX

 

* shrug *
Yea sorry, its off thread topic. I just thought blood bay was supposed to be the kinda.. testing of how they wanna start worken on pvp mechanics. like virtues and or something no idea.
and yea maybe im wrong, maybe it takes VERY little time to do the telethon things.

But yea on topic,
unique personal vendor, dif then launch day vendor and dif then current (limited edition ) might be a neat thing.

 

As a CG artist I can tell you that I could do this without any real distraction tbh. Myrcello is not asking about recording your 8h/d workflow, just some small sessions of work, once per week is enough

 

Perhaps the term "developer" is getting overloaded these days, as I was thinking purely as a software developer. I also have a professional art background, though am nearly 15 years away from it, and can understand your sentiments. As a software developer only, just the simple, non subjective thought of a camera with a web feed / stream of me sitting there staring at code would be enough interruption of train of thought that project completion estimates would have to expand by 30-50%.

This would be entirely different regarding a planned, time-portioned, interactive session where I am communicating with an audience. Im just referring to the thought of a constant stream pointed at me while developing software.

Right, so thats a planned event. Im also a software mentor, having about 15-20 years industry experience, so Ive done everything from podcast to pairing to coding in front of an audience before. Its different when its a planned event and you have a particular exercise prepared and youre presenting to an audience. Someone contracting me to "develop their API for 3 months while a camera streams everything I do" just sounds like a whole lot of distraction and much less work, and lower quality work, accomplished.


All of my commentary in this thread comes from a career of non engineers not really understanding the concept of "maker time" and my resulting struggle to secure distraction-free environments. Its 50% of the reason I am a remote developer only and will always turn down any gig that requests I work in a location not of my choosing (unless you want to offer me idiotic gobs of money, that might be different). So I guess there is a part of me that wants to communicate these sentiments, lest anyone think it be productive for Port to stick live streams on the developers (software... im not gonna speak for art) and they all drop the project running mad after a few months. There is a lot of general negativity towards their team that I suspect is simply the lack of understanding on behalf of the community of what it takes to run a start up or small company, what it takes to manage a project this big, what sort of limitations they have due to budget and team size, and the general lack of experience in the agile software development process. The last part is especially expected, its actually rare corporations in the industry get that right, let alone end consumers .

So please guys, please just let em work and dont stick live feeds on em . Evaluate changes at 3 and 6 month intervals. Although Port has done an incredible job at deliverables each release, a month by month evaluation doesnt really reveal much in terms of knowing "how hard theyre workin" behind the scenes.

Now back to the complaints about telethon items - Im pretty sure it does go as thus - its inexpensive / very-ergonomic for them to produce that stuff, and, the whole purpose of the telethon is to fund the game. The prizes are a bonus. We dont pledge during a telethon to get prizes, we pledge to fund the game. Prizes are a side effect. To ask them to work on "better prizes" for the telethon is to ask them to stop developing whatever it is theyre doing for the game and come up with a "cool belt" for the telethon. Id rather them stick to the plan, and keep releasing the cheap n easy goods until more mature back end systems are in place that allow for "better" cheap n easy goods later.

I personally only like about 5% of the telethon prizes, but appreciate all of them. I pledge to fund the game, and think its pretty incredible that you get a big list of swag for just $5, plus your $5 also gets whatever you intentionally bought with it. Id accept zero prizes if prizes meant they had to stop normal game development (to make prizes).

 

I also worked with software engineers in the past and I don't see any issue on this tbh. As I can do this, they also can, and in fact they do (Myrcello added some examples). Agree with you that maybe is more "flexible" and interesting for the art stuff, coding is..you know, more abstract for the audience

 

In my opinion, it's not a software engineer or artist thing.

It's a person thing. Most people just aren't comfortable with livestreaming their normal, run of the mill work. It is rare to want to be under that kind of microscope all the time. And really, who is going to watch them plug away for eight-plus hours a day, five days a week? Maybe some hard-core people will subscribe to Big Brother 24/7, but most people are going to tune into the curated 60 minute show to cut out the boring downtime.

 

Livestream is not needed , you can also record your work session (small one), even editing if there are parts you wont show because are slow or tedious, and give as reward to the community via uploading to the website, etc. There are more than just one option always.

 

How long would you keep a job if your employer... or the VCs who funded the company... insisted that every moment of your day be recorded?