Four Years (or, Why free passes re: development have to stop)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Canterbury, Mar 11, 2017.

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  1. Zapatos80

    Zapatos80 Avatar

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    My opinion as well.
     
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  2. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Topic is getting close to being closed due to, once again, personal attacks :(. If you are talking TO someone and attacking and belittling their position personally, then take your concern to PM please!
     
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  3. Canterbury

    Canterbury Avatar

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    It's also a matter of prioritisation, and alongside that, marketing as well. ESO has the budget to smash through a lot of work fairly quickly, and release a lot of stuff just as quickly. But that makes no commercial sense.

    Prior to implementing housing, for example, ESO released the Imperial City, Orsinium, Thieve's Guild, Dark Brotherhood and Shadows of the Hist DLC. Then it revamped the game under 'One Tamriel' (which was huge).

    While all of this was going on, it was working on the housing, while also working on the absolutely massive Morrowind expansion (much bigger than the already large DLC packs), coming out later this year, across PC and console.

    I guess what I'm getting at is you can't take ESO's release date, then the date housing was released and think, "Wow! It took them so long to do..." because, clearly, priorities and marketing put a ton of content before it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  4. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Berek... It used to be that when posts were removed a notification was sent to the author notifying them of the fact.

    Is this still true?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  5. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Yes, this should definitely be occurring for everyone. If you know of a post that was removed and you received no notifications whatsoever, please PM me with the post and details!
     
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  6. Nomad2

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    Well put and I never thought of it in that way - having said that, I think your above statement (regarding the other items ESO was working on in conjunction with housing) is valid for Sota as well.
     
  7. yarnevk

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    Even worse when those of us that do attempt to come up with a solution, we get snidely told that we are being armchair developers and not to tell the devs what to do because they have done this for decades. Ironically by the very same people that will tell you to come up with a solution and stop complaining.
     
  8. Thxforthememories

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    I haven't read this whole thread but would offer a general piece of advice.

    Dialogue, both positive and negative, is good. However, vague, open ended statements will not leave management with actionable material.

    If you are unhappy with the direction of the game, express it once here on the forums, but more importantly, in a brief but specific manner to Chris and Starr via email or message. Be sure to explain what your next actions are (e.g. No more pledging, playing or both).

    Then do what you say - if you continue to play 40 hours a week and pledge I wouldn't take your complaints too seriously. Also understand that your specific actions may not result in change immediately, no matter how much you have pledged.

    The reality is that Port is monitoring pledge analytics and playing analytics; the best hope for change is a quick summary of your issues and then speak with your wallet and time. I have done this - I don't expect change based on just me but know that's the best way to get my thoughts across.

    Endless walls of text here aren't going to achieve what you want, if what you want is a better game; your actions can effect change.
     
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  9. 2112Starman

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    More so, understand that this is their opinion on how a game should be and I disagree with most of them. The game has issues that I see are still under development. I still have 1500 hours in this game and still love playing it and would love to see the complainers be more constructive.
     
  10. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    I have 1300 hours just on steam. My other accounts I have no idea, but I bet I have over 2000 hours in this game. I have the right to say what I have to say.
     
  11. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

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    Agreed. It is eminently clear to me that the game is in an unfinished state since I have to click a button acknowledging this every time I log in.

    I also read all the release updates and patch notes, going all the way back to the beginning which was years before I joined.

    I think one of the problems here is that backers are being expected to actually READ things, which seems to be more than can be asked of the average gameplayer these days.

    (I mean seriously I get feedback that even my posts are too long for people to "bother" reading. Apparently for some, if it can't be said in a Tweet it isn't worth saying.)

    I'm currently learning about this in a book I am (ahem) reading regarding designing websites to maximize a positive user experience.

    In a nutshell, they explain that people are essentially mentally lazy and doing ANYTHING that requires them to think results in a negative experience.

    I find this very unfortunate and difficult to swallow, but I can see the wisdom behind it.

    The thing that gets me is how people who don't have the time or inclination to read any of the dev posts (or even the instructions for that matter) appear to have near unlimited time and motivation to repeatedly air their gripes in the forum.

    To be completely honest, I wish we could have a game that doesn't cater to this generation of people for whom having to read or figure anything out for themselves "hurts their brain" but I'm afraid the more pragmatic concerns of simply getting enough players to have a commercially viable game takes precedence over this.

    Perhaps this is one of the worst errors that RG has made... Overlooking the fact that "today's gamer" is simply not willing to invest the time and effort necessary to play the game that he's been wanting to create since 1981.

    For better or for worse, 1981 is long gone. And mostly gone along with it are gamers who are willing to spend a week or more "stumped" with little or no visible progress in a game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  12. Sean Silverfoot

    Sean Silverfoot Avatar

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    @Canterbury Can you explain why:

    Yet in this thread you are concerned or complained that SOTA is entering it's fourth year of development. ????????
     
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  13. Alexander

    Alexander Avatar

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    Well stated. And it saddens me that things have reached this state.
     
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  14. Canterbury

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    Yes, because SotA isn't in the league of the games I'm thinking of when I say that, ie: games which aren't lots of small instances, have a bajillion quests, are probably fully voiced, etc. SotA's simply not as big as those games.

    And PS: 2017 is four years after the Kickstarter, but actually represents the game entering its 5th year of development, not fourth. 2013 was its first year, 2014 was its second, 2015 was its third, 2016 was its fourth...
     
  15. Ravicus Domdred

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    I guess it was not so much like your post. My post was talking about how to keep people here and game longevity. Not belittling todays gamers.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/community-driven-game-longevity.22817/
     
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  16. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Wow... That was one quite amazing feat of self-apologetics. You can't be serious...?
     
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  17. Canterbury

    Canterbury Avatar

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    Important too, when I see posts having a go at the "modern gamer" is to really be sure of who one is speaking to when the post is written.

    I likely pre-date many of you in age (and gaming pedigree), so being told in a blanket statement that I'm a modern gamer with no patience... :confused:
     
  18. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Respectfully... Eh? :) I wasn't responding to your post. Not sure what you are referring to, but it isn't "belittling" to recant what web development experts are saying these days. Which is... Users don't like to read and if they spend more than a modicum of time having to figure out what to do next, they are gone.

    If there is a less "belittling" way to express this sentiment, I'm open to suggestions.
     
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  19. Ravicus Domdred

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    well if you are on topic then you are referring to the people in this thread right? Otherwise why post it here?
     
  20. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Um... That post was a response to Muggly Wumple's comment. There was no personal characterization of you made there.
    Mmmm.... No that post was a response to Muggly Wumple's comments. Hence the quotation. I have no idea- nor would I purport to know- who in this thread would or wouldn't be characterized as a "modern gamer"... The reply was made in a general sense...
     
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