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No More Ridiculous Over-sized/Anime Immersion Busting Crap!

Discussion in 'Release 41 Feedback Forum' started by Bom, May 6, 2017.

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  1. Bom

    Bom Avatar

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    [​IMG]
    @DarkStarr @Lord British

    I loved the original medieval fantasy theme of Ultima Online. Ultima Online: The Second Age is certainly at the top of my all-time favorite games ever. What I really disliked was when Electronic Arts started ruining the Ultima Online medieval theme, haphazardly throwing all kinds of cartoonish cutesy garbage into the world like giant ride-able fire beetle backpacks, over-sized neon pink weapons, glowing green armor, and every kind of cutie-pie pet from every kid's game and cartoon. That crap is embarrassing and repulsive to me.

    I dislike much of the steampunk robotics in Shroud of the Avatar, but I can try to deal with it if the items are somewhat believable and fit within the world theme. But the ridiculous absurdity above is taking it too far! If I saw the screenshot above before buying Shroud of the Avatar, I wouldn't. There are plenty of silly fantasy/anime games out there already, and I avoid them all.

    Come on Shroud of the Avatar team, I expect better from you! That sword is plain stupid.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
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  2. Waxillium

    Waxillium Avatar

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    The biggest problem is a filthy human is wielding a kobold weapon!
     
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  3. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    ultima 1: space ace.
     
  4. Bom

    Bom Avatar

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    @Alley Oop @Lord British

    Space games are not my favorite genre of games either, even though I'm extremely interested in real space exploration. I was not the least bit interested in Tabula Rasa; except that it was being developed by Richard Garriott and Starr Long and only because I loved Ultima Online so much - a very similar situation to Shroud of the Avatar and the lack of the open PvP world of Ulitma Online. I played Tabula Rasa once or twice, just because it was developed by Richard Garriott, but then never played again. I just don't like space games very much.

    I also don't think it's a good idea for Richard Garriott to try to mix his personal interests i.e. space travel and automatons within the medieval fantasy genre. Doing so creates a strange and confusing theme for players that would normally really appreciate one theme or the other and mixing two genres together like space and medieval fantasy is a really bad idea. I understand he got away with it long ago, but that's not going to work anymore...

    ...unless there is a really interesting and compelling story behind it, like maybe the medieval world is only a virtual reality which humans are enslaved within, similar to The Matrix. But even then the virtual would should seem consistent and realistic for it to be believed by those trapped within it - a giant chainsaw sword instantly destroys belief.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  5. redfish

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    Space can definitely be made to work in a fantasy setting.

    Baron Munchaussen,
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Not exactly what RG was doing in Ultima 1, though... and Ultima 1 should never be used as justification for anything :D

    Anyway I appreciate the concerns in the OP and would not like SotA to turn into an cartoonish anime game either but was thinking in this particular example it was not so bad and could be justified by the kobold technology. Though dual wielding these is pretty ridiculous :D They seem like they'd be pretty bulky.

    There are a lot worse player gear currently in the game from an immersion perspective, don't know why you'd picking on this particular item ;)
     
  6. Bom

    Bom Avatar

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    @redfish

    I'm aware of the other silly items in the game. I just finally had enough when I was browsing the store and saw this item again and finally wanted to share my thoughts with the developers. In other words, it was the last straw and I felt I should say something. That's the point of being a part of the development right? Please feel free to add other ridiculous items to the topic, maybe they can be improved or minimized before release.
     
  7. Senash Kasigal

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  8. fonsvitae

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    Plus one for kobold technology and space themes in game; Ultimas have long dabbled in these areas.
     
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  9. Bom

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    @Senash Kasigal

    I think you misunderstood my point, I'm fine with strange or unusual fantasy gear, like kobold technology, I'm merely suggesting that it not look so ridiculous, over-sized, and anime themed - the image you posted is another example of taking things too far.
     
  10. Emso Boydon

    Emso Boydon Legend of the Hearth

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    I am saving inoperable kobold tech in the hopes of being able to repair it one day ;)
     
  11. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    What made you think that Ultima series and Ultima online have been strictly medieval fantasy? I'm not trying to poke you here, but what I'm getting at is that they didn't just throw in the modern kobold tech stuff out of the blue. Consider the earlier games in the series have stuff like space shuttle and alien spaceship. Lord blackthorne in UO is a floating dude. Lord British is from modern earth. This is really nothing new.

    As for the picture you posted on the OP, it is a kobold chainsaw sword. Kobolds by nature are bigger than human especially the warriors, so it shouldn't unusual for their weapons to be huge. Wouldn't more weird for the weapons to be scaled down to fit human hand?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  12. redfish

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    @Roycestein Kaelstrom,

    Not really... The only Ultimas that really had space stuff in a serious way was Ultima I and Ultima II -- which had space stuff because time travel -- and I don't think can really be used as a justification for anything. The Kilrathi ship in U7 was an Easter Egg crossover from another game, and the plans for a mecha punk Blackthorn would have been a major shift as well and would not have gone over well with fans. As for U1 and U2, Lord British admitted that his earlier games were just an eclectic mix of things he liked at the time -- which also included elves and dwarfs and other things from D&D -- and he had afterwards made a conscious attempt to move away from that type of stuff as he tried to create his own vision. And as he did get rid of the stuff like spaceships and elves, and became more focused, the games became better and more interesting. So when most people think of Ultima, they think of the world he created from Ultima III onward.

    Still, its true that some type of mix of technology and magic was still present in a lot Ultima games. So we had the automatons in Serpent Isle, which were powered by soul gems and a flux generator; and we had Exodus, which was a fusion of a computer and a daemon running a black core. You have hot air balloons in U6 and could travel out to the edge of the world to see the stars of the void, and in U7, if you get past the Kilrathi spaceship, we still have small things like the clockwork orrery in the Lyceum.

    Also, technology is not an uncommon element in fantasy. The Elder Scrolls also has it in the form of Dwemer contraptions, and Tracy Hickman who helped write the story created tinker gnomes in Dragonlance. In the Smurfs, you have Clockwork Smurf, who is a clockwork automaton who runs on a heart of gold. In Greek myth, there was Talos, a giant automaton made of gold which was brought to life by ichor. Some forms of clockwork technology, including automata, did exist in the Middle Ages, and were likened to magic.

    So definitely, if you're careful about it, you can mix clockwork technology into a fantasy setting. And space travel, too, as I pointed out. Munchhausen deals with a later time period, but the "Medieval" in "Medieval fantasy" has always been a bit subjective. Its often been either some pre-medieval Time of Legend, or some fantasy world that has included post-Medieval elements.

    So these things can definitely be part of the game, I just think its a bit silly to say "Ultima I did it, so its good!"
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  13. Burzmali

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    Last night I hunted with a fellow that looked like he was running around in what could have passed for a sequined ball gown, wearing a halloween mask and with wings strapped to his back. Sadly the "too far" ship sailed long ago.
     
  14. Bom

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    So you think this looks good? Do you think a chainsaw sword would even function well? A chainsaw relies upon holding the teeth fairly stationary against an object, while a blade requires the exact opposite - a quick swing or a sharp stab. Not only does it look absurd, but it is absurd.

    It reminds me of something I would expect to see in a game like World of Warcraft.

    I know you as a solid defender of the game, but sometimes the Emperor's New Clothes need to be pointed out for what they are not.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  15. Alexander

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  16. Bom

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  17. Alexander

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    I remember back during the Kickstarter campaign in one of the videos that RG didn't want oversized anime style weapons in the game. That chainsaw would be fine if it were half the size.
    I don't mind the tech, but I think we are on the verge of overdoing it a bit. Reminds me of the roller-coasters (aka mining carts) that are beginning to proliferate the mines/dungeons.
    Novelties can be nice, but not when it is overdone.
     
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  18. redfish

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    Yea, I mentioned U7 and SI ;) But using Ultima I as an argument, it would be like saying it would be a good idea for every castle in the game to have a princess that's held captive by a jester, and when you rescue the princess she gives you HP.

    Yea, its not good. And when I say that, I don't mean to bash the players who happen to like running around in a wing and masks... just that I don't think how its been included in game makes the game better. Lots of people will get turned away from the game by that kind of stuff, lots more will just stay in SPO or offline to avoid it. Would maybe be different a bit maybe if these things created a hindrance while fighting... since wearing a pair of fake wings doesn't really help you fight... and so they were used for other things. Or if the devs didn't create incentives to wear bone armor, which also looks like a Halloween costume. Oh yea and a giant chainsword should definitely require strength and have a dex hit... but hard to do with the pattern system. ;)
     
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  19. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Maybe we should just let Richard Garriott build the game he wants. And tell the stories he wants.
     
  20. Bom

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    Maybe we should just close down the Early Access Feedback forum?
     
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