Path of Love: Spite to Malice Feedback [spoilers]

@Lum the Mad: One of the hardest segments of completing the Path of Love quest is the confusion that occurs around Spite/Malice. Here is some feedback through the chat log.

Main points:
- Not at all clear how Samael will accompany you to Malice.
- Dialogue keeps hinting at the importance of a disguise and sneaking, but there is none required.
- Is there a Far Gate? Is it different than the one right by the docks?
- The dialogue seems to hint that there were ways the quest was planned to be more involved, and that it ended up simpler.

Chat log in italics. My comments in green.

Samael: We will need help if we are to enter Malice, Vyrin. Spirit talking alone will not be enough. There is a problem with entering the dead city.
Vyrin: help
Samael: I, like you, seek entry into Malice.
Vyrin: Malice
I wrote of this in my journal.
Samael: All the problems with the undead are centered in Malice. That is where our quest has led us. There, too, are where all the answers to your questions will be found. If you have not already, spoken to the undertaker here, and I believe he can book passage for us with his wagon. We could cross the Lake Tempest on Charon's boat, but given that Charon only transports the dead, that may not be the best solution.

Samael starts off by presuming he is joining me. Although since I hired Kardan for the Necropolis, the transition here is disjointed. In fact, I could have gotten to this point without ever talking to Samael and he seems like a confidant. It is even more strange when later Yama on Malice says I need to hire a Spirit Talker. I wasted time trying to figure out how to "hire" Samael when he will automatically follow.

Typo: spoken should be speak, or keep spoken and rephrase.

The dialogue speaks of booking passage with a wagon. But also, crossing the lake on a boat. You never really need the wagon, and the point is that Yama can get us on Charon's boat.

Vyrin: problem
You have been given a description of Yama.
Samael: The dead of Malice are vengeful. They will not let the living pass among them, no matter what I may try to say. If we are to find answers, we must find a way for the dead to think we are one of them. Preferably, without actually dying. I believe the undertaker, Yama, has offered a solution for this. You should speak to him if you have not already.

This seems to have no relevance to how you enter Malice. Yama had no solution for appearing dead that I could tell from his dialogue and it seems like you go into Malice without any such guise and just fight. Did I miss it somehow?

Agathon: Agathon is the name! Theatricals are my profession, nay, my very lifeblood! I am a master of disguise, and can create the most amazing theatrical illusions... sadly, however, my engagement here in Spite was cancelled.
Vyrin: disguise
Agathon: Alas, I am quite saddened that since my performance has been cancelled, I can be of no help to you. I recommend talking to our good Yama here for more... mundane methods of moving through Malice most merrily!

This smells like it might have been something more important to the quest at one point - especially given the fact the Samael hints we need to be disguised.

Yama: I deal in the dead... that's my job. I transport the dead to Malice. Death isn't fun, but it's a living. Hah. That's a joke, by the way.
Vyrin: dead
I wrote of this in my journal.
Yama: I could sneak you and Samael in among the dead, if you're willing. That is, if you looked anything like the dead. You'll need Samael, because like me, I don't think you like talking to the dead much.
Samael: (to Yama) I don't enjoy it, either.
Yama: (to Samael) Aye, but you still do it.
Yama: (to you) Anyway, it might not work and they might discover you anyway. But if you're willing to make that risk, just take the ferry at the docks across the lake, and then meet my wagon on the shores of Malice. Won't be the most graceful of trips, but you'll get there.
Vyrin: work
Yama: (to you) I could sneak you in among all the dead, if you need me to. Doesn't bother me none.
Vyrin: dead
Yama: (to you) Just take the ferry across the lake, meet my wagon on the shores of Malice, and I'll give you what you need to get through the Far Gate. Won't be the most graceful of trips, but you'll get there.

The first response to dead is different than the second, which is nice to see. However, the first has the problem of indicating a disguise is needed. The second is much more straightforward and mentions a Far Gate.

Vyrin: Far Gate
Yama: (to you) It's a trade secret! Only I know the way into the back entrance of Malice. If you want to visit the dead, you'll need my help...

Is the Far Gate something different than the main entrance to Malice? Does he have an ability to take you there once you get to Malice? I didn't try to ask him... doesn't seem like you could get very far with another door because you need to talk to Samael who is at the beginning of the trip into Malice.

Vyrin: help
Yama: (to you) I could sneak you in among all the dead, if you need me to. Doesn't bother me none.

There's really no sneaking involved. You talk to Charon and make the trip without a disguise, and then everything in Malice attacks you. Is there a way to sneak? Otherwise I would not call it sneaking.

Charon: Yama has spoken to me. I will let you and Samael ride my ferry to Malice if you like. I will not guarantee you surviving once you arrive, as the dead are ...selective with whom they tolerate. But if you insist, I will take you.

Charon mentions no disguises, no sneaking.

Yama: You're going to need a spirit talker if you want to get too far among the dead without joining them. Might want to meet up with us at the Keg and Egg in Spite. Usually a good spirit talker there.
Yama: Come over here, and be quick about it.
Yama: You're going to need a spirit talker if you want to get too far among the dead without joining them. Might want to meet up with us at the Keg and Egg in Spite. Usually a good spirit talker there.

On Malice, Yama confused me saying that I still needed a spirit talker. As I mentioned, I was unclear of Samael's status with me from the dialogue above, so I went back to try to hire him.... with no luck.

Also, there is no indication that Samael is waiting inside for you. Why doesn't he start with you outside? The ideal would be the accompaniment used in Necropolis. That may be a lot of work at this point though.

 

One fairly major bug which explains some of your confusion is that Samael is supposed to comment on your hiring Kardan and offer you a chance to hire him back (and block your progress until you do).

We did intend on having 3 different ways of gaining entrance to Malice but playtesting showed it was too confusing for people.

Yama should comment when you talk to him outside of Malice that Samael went ahead of you and that is also written in your journal.

We plan (within the next release or two) to convert Samael to a quest companion once he is broken free of his despair over his wife; this should also make that much clearer. Right now you can just randomly trigger that without knowing it happened (which we had to do because when it was more difficult many people just couldn't make it happen.)