Poll: Do we need an in-game map?

What value does NOT having a map bring to the game. Anyone that wants to use it will use a 3rd party solution and complain that there is no mini map. Anyone that does not wish to use it can hide it.

Having a mini map is a positive feature for those that want it. It's not a negative feature for those that do not wish to use it.

 

I'll use SotAMap whether it's integrated into the game or not... It's a wonderful resource.
It's consistent... Why fight to keep secret that which won't be secret... Every nook and cranny twist and turn of the game will be available online with multiple text and video walkthroughs... analysis and critique... Why expend extra effort to fight a battle lost before it's begun.
It's just like RMT. There will be gold sellers... Portalarium could spend bandwidth and precious resources fighting a battle that cannot be won, or embrace the fact and allow it to be done above-board and thereby actually kill much of the motivation to seek out a third party.

 

linux players don't have working sotamap integration yet, but the website works fine when i need it. that's not often: the only times in the past few months i've really wanted that integration were when stewarding, not in adventure scenes.

i'm with @Mykll on this. i have my compass off almost always; i remember routes visually. i don't mind getting a full base layout, but i don't want exits/npcs/nodes/breakable walls/secret doors and the things behind them that i haven't discovered on it until i see them. that also has the advantages of an achievement system people have been asking for: congratulations! you've discovered everything there is to find on this map!

 

Yes.

 

I asked why and listed possible outcomes...

My point is that how "new" a player may be is completely irrelevant; their impressions and expectations are going to be different regardless.

Go dig some of my earlier posts from 2013. I "sound" exactly the same. Why? Because I've been saying the same thing for the past 3 years.

The forums don't go further back than 2014:
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...he-only-one-mind-bogglingly-frustrated.10913/

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/my-r9-feedback.14438/(I even talk about mini-maps @25:35)

Am I to assume my posts were more important back then? Has there been any substantial changed since?

Good to know that I can reply on the community to spew random thoughts without bothering to explain what they mean...

For the smarty-pants out there, "yes" is not a proper response to "why"

 

Exactly. This. Thank you LoneStranger

 

Agree completely .

 

I just want to remind people again...

Nobody has really ever argued against maps being available in game. So I think this is kind of a false debate.

The only real issue that has seriously come up on the forums has been what type of game mechanic should be made for it... and that's a meaningful choice, because its only really going to be one game mechanic or another. You can't have both a SotAMap-like persistent map system in the game and meaningfully have the inventory-based maps with a working cartography system, because the first will make the second redundant, pointless, and underdeveloped. We've seen this already with the list based inventory vs. bag based inventory.

 

I used sotamap externally (which is way better than in game) throughout my entire time as a new player and I still do. Not having an in game map forced me to make friends and ask questions. Which is how I learned of sota map, and also allowed me to establish a rapport with some very knowledgeable players that i still chat with today, a year later.

Every player is given a starter guide at the beginning of the game and always has access to it. It's chalked with all kinds of great resources and information.

Do i think we need an in game map? Not necessarily. But if we don't, we must have a great external reliable map resource and all new players should be directed to it. Port could even host it on a webpage. This would open a fun aspect of playing the game not just from the client, but a browser also.

Port has always wanted to force players to interact. Excluding a map was one of those strategies.

I agree with Ristra though. There really aren't any benefits to not at least have a minimap.

That's my 2 cents.

 

Why?

 

Because I said so.

 

I can agree with that. The sotamap window should have two of the layers disabled by default: resources (partly too easy mode, partly too incomplete), and monsters (is there even anything on that?)

Really, I'm mostly okay with the sotamap window as it is, but it just feels wrong to have to embed an entire bleeping web browser into the game to make it work.

Fog of war doesn't make sense for overworld and town maps. I don't know how I feel about outdoor scenes, but for dungeon scenes I can see it being a thing. The tricky part is how you save the fog between times. The OCD among us would rather not have to obsessively re-expose corners all the time.

I think that would be no trivial thing to implement. But I can also see myself going out of the way to make all sorts of maps if it wasn't too fiddly. But I'd have to have a way to mark the location of garlic nodes!

Because we love you!

 

Indeed, it wouldn't be. I think it would best be added as a companion to something like sailing ships and such that anchors a new episode or major middle release.

The trick is to look ahead, plan a little, and set up the current behavior with the expectation that it will be modified. That means don't give the users full maps now, or they'll be pissed when they're removed.

 

@Elwyn I love you too man!

 

Woot! Crayons & Graph Paper for EVERYONE!!

No... just kidding, don't get excited. I am all for certain things that make gaming life more enjoyable. Having maps is one of those things. I don't want to time travel back to 80s-early 90s gaming, having to map everything yourself. No thank you. It was a major P I T A! It may have been well and good for Pen & Paper RPG but having to do it all the time took away from the play of the games. Still have old notebooks full of that stuff.

Simply have a toggle under options for people to have an "Automap" and various features if they want it or not. But beware... there are still people that get extremely angry at how OTHER people play their game and if it's not played the way they like to play. As simple as this is, there will still be people pouting & holding their breath if they don't get their way on it.

 

I do not think there is an alternative to having a map. I do not bother if the "maps" need to be acquired first but running around in a metropolitan area without a map is not very funny (EVERY TIME you try it). With the current way you have to leave a big town, it is faster to logout and login to overland map if you don't know where to go (that is really a thing given the scene load times).

 

It is like in RL the first time you visit a scene you do not know where to find e.g. an NPC but after some visits you are familiar with the area. So I do not think we “need” a map. A map is just nice to have.
But if we would have the choice I would prefer a more complex mechanic with a needed skill that is displaying different info depending on the level of that cartographer skill (just roads+lots -> names of NPCs -> Names of the lot owners -> hidden mechanics -> …), a piece of paper needed in your inventory you are sketching the area while walking that is tradeable, map updates just if you visit the area again and note the changes,… or at least you have to visite some PoI or buy a map from an NPC to unlock the area map but I honestly do not think there is enough value in creating such a mechanic as everyone is able to use the internet and just a very small number of avatars will be avoiding external sources. I think it has been proven with the first iteration of crafting recipes (try to figure them out by yourself vs take a look at the internet) and I do not think it will be that different with maps. Even with a hidden map for areas you haven't visited most avatars will still walk quite hotfoot to their destination.
But even if there is no real “need” most avatars still want to use a map and so I think it would be good to create a proper solution...no complex mechanic just the map with everything important visible and yes, maybe Sota Map could be such a solution.

 

Or...

You could just have an "automap" that updates as you explore areas, figure out who ppl are and points of interest as you encounter them.
If you're a minimalist, you can just toggle it off and most of the UI and have at it.

 

What I meant by a fog of war is one that once you clear it it stays clear, so you only have to clear the fog of war from each map once. IMO it should include Novia.

 

May be I have to correct my vote
NO, of course, we don't need any Kind of map (system)

If I would have more time, like in the 80's or 90's, to draw them by myself. And I made a lot of them... so many Adventures...
I also made a 1-to-1-map of Sosaria

But in these times, lands and townnames and Citys were smaller...

If I am a player, entering one hour a day, should it be filled with searching and searching?

It isn't easy for now, if you are sent to find a place or person to complete a quest...

And yes, it's okay to search at the first time. But I am lost, when visiting Brittany just from time to time...

And even if I know a place very good now, after coming back weeks or months later, I start again with searching, without any map.

From one point, yes, we really don't need a map. That's right...
But isn't it exciting to find(!) and (auto)cartographing new places, marking npc's, secret doors, nodes, special points, like vaults, ...
In other words: F E E L I N G and S E E I N G the progress I made in exploring this great world of Adventures?

And yes: may be new cartography skills should be implemented, and of course, we should have an option to toggle it on/off...

For me this would be a big reason to explore more of the Land and visit other (PO)towns...
And I think also tourism would participate from
(Wasn't there a great merchant in this POT selling silver? The Community party was were?)