A Changed Perspective on Release (rmt)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Superbitsandbob, Jan 31, 2018.

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  1. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    I think I get your point.
    Let me ask a question to check it.
    SotA has an ingame economy. Let's not go down the road if it is good or bad.
    Where is the real difference if the price is set in ingame gold or in USD?
    Nowhere in my opinion. An ingame gold favors ppl with a lot of time. Now one might say that USD favors ppl with a lot of money. But that's not really true because ppl with a lot of time can still compete and substitute the usd with gold.
    Sure, ppl that have neither are **** out of luck. But they would be in every game no matter if RMT was legal or not.
     
  2. Sher Shadowleaf

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    I've found, so far, the outside money has an equivalent to game gold. I'm not understanding how that drives up or changes the price in game, and many people sell using both options of gold or real money. Maybe that changes with a larger population. I guess we'll see.
     
  3. Oeneusc

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    Shadow code updates are probably coming that changes the how, the why and the radius of experience in a group. o_O

    I'd pay $10 to throw lightning bolt bean bags at random people. That wasn't your point but I feel good about it.
     
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  4. Sher Shadowleaf

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    I want to watch you do that. I might even donate $10 to see it double.
     
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  5. StrangerDiamond

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    In an ideal world I would completely agree ! Time can be traded with money... time is money. Both are a form of shared energy.

    If we remain on topic of a changed perspective of the OP, then we're rather speaking about when faced with a law of the jungle economy, this idealistic equation does not apply, at all.

    Too many of my ex-friends made money by buying adwords on google, penny stocks. I'm not even going to talk bout hacking because its self-explanatory. I left those people on purpose, because of the virtue and lessons I learned in Ultimas.

    So the equation is broken and there is no checks and balances in place.

    There is the question of how someone that has millions in his account due to non-time consuming revenue can possibly buy big amounts of a certain resource and drive the prices up or down.

    There are still too many questions that the statement dodges.

    Now as to solutions, well I think for starters there should be a limit on those transactions and their frequency... allowing it sure, but letting the economy digest its ebb and flow.
     
  6. StrangerDiamond

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    haha, well not THAT is common practice in larps, challenges for money is perfectly fine :) Most of those organizations live on donated money so its considered very good practice to donate for enticing players to do funny or challenging stuff.
     
  7. Sher Shadowleaf

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    Wow...has that been happening? I think I'm in my own little world most of the time and must be missing the disasters going on.
     
  8. StrangerDiamond

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    I'm also looking towards AI-backed checks and balances... sure a rich and renowed *key word* blacksmith can chose to sell 1000 tungsten to another blacksmith.

    But should really a new account with no reputation or virtue be allowed to log in mine mine mine and then sell for in game gold or USD ?

    I think not, I think the oracle would at least jump in and tax such a transaction, to the benefit of portalarium.
     
  9. StrangerDiamond

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    Yah... and I'm censoring parts of it :/

    You're doing fine in your bubble, for me it was a struggle to remain in it and refuse all this "free money" those people are being showered with :)
     
  10. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    @Budner don't mess around!

    *Ahem* Point of order Counselor.

    Although you are correct that the changing of a mutually agreed TOS requires both parties consent; it's relevancy is dubious when discussing the resale of digital assets.

    Remember, the internet has generated a new set of assets know as “digital assets.” Broadly defined, a digital asset is an electronic record in which an individual has a right or interest. This definition erroneously implies that digital assets should be treated as a legally equivalent set of assets when, in fact, failure to differentiate digital assets into one of three distinct classes will result in legal difficulties. Much like we are discussing here.

    As you are probably aware, the first class of digital assets is contained on a device that is in the owner’s control. Usually, this device is a computer or storage device. Class-one digital assets include e-mails, software, content and data stored in tangible property, typically a decedent’s home computer. A second class of digital assets are access rights and use rights to internet assets located in a computer or other storage device owned by a person other than the digital asset owner. Class-two digital assets are e-mails, software, content and data stored and created in a tangible property on a third party’s computer or other tangible property. Class-three digital assets are access and use rights related to internet assets, but unlike class-two digital assets, class-three digital assets do not have any physical point of presences (i.e., their existence is not dependent upon storage), hence they need not be stored anywhere. A domain name is an example of a class-three digital asset.

    It is the class-two asset that I am bringing to the attention of the court today. With respect to class-two digital assets, the original owner of said asset merely had access, not possession. Contracts normally govern access to class-two internet assets. Consequently, the rights to class-two internet assets are determined based on the assignment or non-assign clause associated with the class-two internet assets. In fact, according to McCarthy v. UCorp a person’s class-two digital property can only be assigned if the terms of service state so upon the initial agreement (E-signing of EULA).

    Therefore, since Portalarium's TOS clearly states that they are the owners of all digital assets they created, it cannot be assigned and hence you don't own it!

    Your Honor, I humbly request for a motion to dismiss on the grounds that the plaintiff's complaint fails to state a claim upon which relief may be granted and that my client be exonerated of all charges.

    P.S. I am not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  11. Diab Blackbow

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    I think forum rules says you can only use a joke once per thread.
     
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  12. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Naw I get special dispensation.
     
  13. Diab Blackbow

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    Okay good. I didn't want the thread locked.
     
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  14. redfish

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    Well, "meta-" anything tends to take you out of the role... And RPGs are about playing a role, its kind of central to the definition.

    Of course, yea, you can still have an RPG with some meta- stuff existing - and most do to a little extent - its just people who really like RP for RP's sake like to make the RP aspects as strong as possible. That means a kind of closed virtual world environment which stands on its own.

    I actually think of LARPs as weaker in this regard, because playing a game, whether a computer game or a pen-and-paper game, everything is defined in an imaginary space, while a LARPer has to make a lot of compromises with reality.
     
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  15. StrangerDiamond

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    Indeed, I agree with this assessment, and furthermore that is why people are looking to build games like crypto kitty where the assets really belong to you thanks to blockchain technology, the rules are also hard baked in the game that is also all in blockchain and open source.

    I'm taking giant leaps I know, but I also fully beleive the devs capable of such a feat *hint* @Lord British I invite you to try out this game and understand how it works, its designed specifically for this reason :)

    The only thing portalarium "owes" us as far as assets go, is the part of the DEV+ package that says we can use the assets of the game for our own unity projects, I haven't checked in a while I hope the devs are keeping their promise about that.

    I think this thread is to gather different perspectives about how people see a FAIR RMT environement, cause lets face it we still haven't defined any limits, the law of the jungle applies. The oracle will intervene when I try to loot my opponent, yet it won't intervene when I try to "loot" an economy ? Sounds way too close to the real world to be fun *cough*.

    This as others have said before attracts exploiters and hackers, but also economy manipulators and investments beyond any reasonable rationale.

    Some people say its cool more people will invest bigger amounts because if they decide to go they can get back their money. While in theory this is very cool for users, it creates problems for the community as a whole by confusing identity and preventing portalarium from getting a new pledge.

    While I understand portalarium's choice to say "its yall's problem" I do not think we can turn a blind eye and then only react when a saturation arises. That wouldn't be very transparent and honest...

    So in retrospect, the right question is :

    Can someone just buy a 40$ pledge, powerlevel it, then sell it for 400 ?

    Isn't that as you said @Berek "exploiting the game for profit purposes" ?

    Then moderating this becomes kind of a feat, because people can use IP spoofers and proxies, becoming fully anonymous.

    I think honestly, that is the core of our problem right there, our PERCEIVED inability to control anything anyways.

    The developers who will connect the dots I have been drawing on the wall will truly push boundaries, and truly revolutionize the genre. You have had plenty of opportunities to get me to share this information in PMs, now its public.

    When I'll really be my own avatar, when me will be me, regardless of numbers attached. Then you will have achieved a true spiritual sucessor, because that is what ultima was always about, understanding the deep facets of our nature, digging deeper and seeking the truth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  16. StrangerDiamond

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    Aka a living breathing world... that was invented with MUDs and fully accomplished for the first time in ultima online, pre RMT era. Then Siege Perilous... I consider Origin devs the inventors of a fully working D&D environement that has maximum replay value. I know of the others and the official D&D titles, but they did not impress me as much as UO did. I will always have this deep admiration about how in advance of their time they were.

    Some are weaker for it... but when you start joining semi-private professional LARPs you realize that its complementary, this is probably why the devs have made such events many times. One is designed to work on introspection and allow you to think and reflect before making actions, the other is designed for maximum dynamism and creating ease and camaradry in order to achieve true ascension, and of course, infinite pleasure and bliss.

    Balance is always necessary, I need both to really feed my thirst for self-knowledge.
     
  17. Satan Himself

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    1) Thanks for reminding me why I don't practice law any more *rubs numbed mind*
    2) You are missing the point, noble Fireman. Port has waived ownership to the extent that they've given me a right to sell my pixels. I have a remedy, and I have rights. Ultimately a jury would laugh off the TOS, realize that Port waived at least partially their ownership rights, and agree that the big corporate monster is screwing the little guy with their legal mumbo-jumbo. Facts and circumstances matter. TOS is not absolute. Give me millions as well as injunctive relief allowing me to sell my Sword of Sexual Thrusting to the highest bidder and requiring Chris to self-torture to repent for introducing the unholy decay feature.
     
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  18. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    First off we prefer "Firefighter" there are women among our ranks as well! :p

    Secondly, and most importantly, I just wanted an excuse to mess with you...and of course pretend I was the protagonist in a John Grisham novel. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  19. StrangerDiamond

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    That would require them to give you the right however... they are only offering a space for a safe marketplace. And since they do not tax or intervene in anyway with the transactions, they are not liable.

    Anyways I know you won't L them bro, its just a question of transparency.

    I see nothing wrong with their stance, but I see everything wrong with their turning the blind eye on how it might affect the game.

    Saying that it has minimal effect was like turning the knife stuck in my back. So was saying that it always existed in UO, while forgetting that at one critical point it became organized and co-opted by malicious characters in their own GM team, who had a tactic that allowed them full anonymity while committing their crime. A tactic we just admitted we have no recourse against...

    I think if we decide to be transparent we have to go all the way.
     
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  20. Tahru

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    Whoa, It was removed? Those are party words! Drinks on me!
     
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