I lost 1/4th of my GM's from one death!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by King Robert, Feb 25, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Thanks good sire, we are having fun, we just want to feel a real difference between progress and STUFF (that can always be a penalty one way or the other).

    Would players cry if they lost one random item upon death, much like the pvp penalty ?

    We're just angry because us casual players don't need a time sink... we're already sinking time in to get to a level where we can join our high level friends in adventures.

    I dunno if you guys played D&D back in the day, but in my experience most GMs would have a two tier system to death penalties :

    - If you were just adventuring around in hopes of advancing your character, then the penalty would be very small (STUFF, most of the time), to encourage you to keep progressing.

    - If you were adventuring for a high risk, maximum reward adventure, then there would be skill penalty if and only if you made obvious errors and missed major clues.

    The penalty would adapt itself to the reward, and not be a general rule that applies an equation with a bell curve.

    You see ?

    Would casual players whine if they knew that once they join tier 6 areas there is a skill penalty ? Thats where 99% of your powergamers will end... cause thats where the reward is worth their time ?

    Probably not.

    It's all a matter of feeling ORGANIC, that there is a flexibility, and adaptability and not arbitrary rules;.
     
  2. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,884
    Likes Received:
    11,033
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    As a backer it's my "job" to play the game and provide feedback and bug reports. It's Portalarium's job to provide solutions/fixes - not mine.
     
    eli likes this.
  3. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I'm beginning to think its my job lol... there has already been major changes to systems that I argued against a loong time ago, I was told I was a whiner then one day bam it was changed and it seems like I was right all along.

    This is the exact same situation... and it will change.
     
    FrostII likes this.
  4. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,884
    Likes Received:
    11,033
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Sure didn't stop them from bringing "Specialization" in at 5 minutes to midnight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  5. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

    Messages:
    7,121
    Likes Received:
    10,958
    Trophy Points:
    153
    ;):(:rolleyes:o_O
     
    Ahuaeynjgkxs likes this.
  6. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Everything can and will change, the only reason this death decay hasn't been figured out is because of the zizany that was infused on purpose on those discussions, in order to make it look like only a few of us were whiners and complained that we couldn't reach 40 GMs, which isn't even a goal for most of us casual players.

    I think a book on diversion tactics could be written with all the material here.
     
    FrostII likes this.
  7. Deadly Habit

    Deadly Habit Avatar

    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    429
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Virtue Oasis
    The biggest problem I think most should or would agree with is the lack of a wipe at "release". I only use the quotes as probably like most MMO players, the second a game goes persistent it's considered released. That's when the testing of best builds, min maxing, best spots to get gold per hour or best spots to get xp per hour begins. I know this is far from the typical RP gaming style a lot of backers on this forum talk about, but to do something like competitive PVP it's a goal for example.
     
  8. MrBlight

    MrBlight Avatar

    Messages:
    2,388
    Likes Received:
    4,452
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Wipe at release does absoutly nothing to nullify the unappealing desciption of the current death decay mechanic.
    Not every mechanic in a game should/will attract players.. but a core one shouldnt actively repel players.
    It's a dumb mechanic, ive said 100x.
    I dont even blame chris. I blame the whole team for not only allowing it, but still defending it.
    Terrible implementation of a penalty. To do what? Make a soft cap? On top of the exponential curve that is also a soft cap?

    Whaaatevs.
     
  9. Malimn

    Malimn Avatar

    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    720
    Trophy Points:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    You know the ONLY skill I lost in UO was when I CHOSE to down arrow a skill.... Now when I died, I did lose reputation when we died.... This style I would be in favor of instead of the current mess we now have.
     
    Ahuaeynjgkxs and FrostII like this.
  10. Deadly Habit

    Deadly Habit Avatar

    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    429
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Virtue Oasis
    Completely agree, but the devs seem hellbent on keeping this mechanic in for whatever reason. I think a lot of people here have come to terms with it not going away, but rather how to mitigate the damage it does to new players and retaining new players (or at least that's my optimistic view on a pessimistic issue).
     
    MrBlight and FrostII like this.
  11. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    2,135
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well they have been slowly widdling away at decay because we keep telling them it's a terrible mechanic so if we keep telling them it's terrible eventually they will get it. To resent reductions were half decay removed if you are ressed by a played and now 75% decay reduction in your two specializations which for me was 66% of my total decay so I was quite happy they are moving in the right direction. And no I don't agree or should agree that a wipe is needed. All that does is piss on all the hard work that players have already put into the game. No thanks!
     
    discipleofweb and Ahuaeynjgkxs like this.
  12. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,884
    Likes Received:
    11,033
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Many have already left in disgust, and many of us are still here waiting to see if Port will finally realize that it was/is a mistake and remove it entirely.
    We'll know the answer to that soon, 'tho - since release is just around the corner.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    Duke Albert likes this.
  13. Deadly Habit

    Deadly Habit Avatar

    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    429
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Virtue Oasis
    Pretty much, I've been holding out for release to delve back in and this wasn't one of my main issues that caused my hiatus in play either.
     
  14. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,884
    Likes Received:
    11,033
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Amen
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    Duke Albert likes this.
  15. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    True, but don't forget that for roleplayers and casual players and even rare collector and decorator types... the great gear of ressources is only background noise.

    We don't really care if players have 200 GMs... it makes no difference because we create our own game.

    What matters however, is the values and ethics that go behind our moderation by "the game" since there is no active gamemaster, those rules need to be clear cut and make sense to both playerabases, meaning powergamers and casual.

    In this case, I see not a single reason being punished, in the few hours I can dedicate to this game every week... dying and having to repair my equipment and run back to where I was defeating every single enemy that respawned is punishment enough. Even having to buy potions and reagents to make sure I don't wipe next time is already a gold and time sink.

    I'm already asking myself at that point : ok... do I have another hour to dedicate to this ? I died should I bite the dust and try again tomorrow ?

    Death is already meaningful, I can handle a durability hit on my equipment, I can handle paying gold to buy back my soul from that corrupt oracle.

    but don't touch my skills !!!

    At least if I died, I'm happy with myself, I got that deep in the dungeon I broke my gear it cost me gold, but I'm a little further towards my goal than I was.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    FrostII, Toadster and Deadly Habit like this.
  16. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    As others have said countless times, at worse if you really have to eat my XP pool, BE MY GUEST.

    But don't go any further, its sacred territory :p
     
  17. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I have even proposed in IMs to devs a very clever solution for powergamers, make it that the high reward bosses have a kind of morale effect on the spirit of the avatar... meaning that if you wipe really fast and had no business fighting that boss your avatar rezes with lower morale, which affects skill related to the boss (or also if you farm it too often and it starts affecting you, diminishing returns with a twist). The more variety of GM skills you have, the more can be affected.

    This way only powergamers who look for high reward and the complete fictitious "fool" who goes to a hopeless fight will be affected by decay, and it will have to do with time they spend in game because the morale effect needs special quests to reverse (and apply their effect over in-game time) hence it gives motivation in the punishment, powergamers can spend time to reverse this and get back to a more stable state with less decay.

    To me, this is VERY simple... yet I reread myself and I feel like it might be hard to understand, is it ?
     
  18. Deadly Habit

    Deadly Habit Avatar

    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    429
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Virtue Oasis
    The way personally design wise I'd handle it is either your gear takes a durability hit or your stats take a penalty for a fixed amount of time or a combo of both. Like you I don't get why hours of progress and the risk vs reward for adventuring should be punished so harshly.
     
    FrostII, MrBlight and Ahuaeynjgkxs like this.
  19. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,884
    Likes Received:
    11,033
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    @MasterWan
    Nice try...
    The definition of "hurt" is NOT "want to avoid".
    "Wand to avoid" is a reaction to hurting.
    You still have not answered the question, but rather have put your spin on the reaction to it.
     
  20. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,884
    Likes Received:
    11,033
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Ok, @Barugon, what exactly do you mean by "entitlement" games that we should move on to ?
    Let's do this thing........
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.