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New Player Feedback - Legitimate

Discussion in 'Release 52 Feedback Forum' started by Caveloot.com Owner, Apr 1, 2018.

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  1. stile

    stile Avatar

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    I have a friend ive been onboarding into SotA the last few days.

    As a result, I have had to answer questions. As I answer these questions, I realized were losing players because Shroud is trying to be to innovative on some REALLY small things, it's failing, and its pushing people away. They are the same conversations ive had with friends in the past that were saying they didnt want to play.

    The first is the JUMP.
    People don't understand that there is a secondary game in shroud, that jump has delays, is jump on release, and that this is so we can play a sub game of breaking stuns, and jumping on mountains.

    whats more, they don't like it. Not many folks are amused to find a "platform' type game within a game.

    The jump alone almost had them leave the game.. because when you cant move properly in a game, you cant play it. it wasnt until I was able to verbally explain how jumps works and why to them, they were willing to deal with it.

    Innovative? sure wanted by most? no. causing people to log out and say i don't like this game? yes.


    Zone chat being checked off by default.. people are logging in and not hearing talk or conversation and saying "does anyone play this game?"


    Targetted tab combat system.... Next problem my friend has is he's dying all the time because he cant see where monsters are, he cant look around him, mover properly, etc.... . whats more he CANT FIX it.

    I explained to him about the tab system... but again, this is defaulting wrong. Its different then other games, which means it needs to be learned if you want to use it.. which means it needs to be the optional setting not the default.. because people think "thats the way the game is".. which results in "im not playing".

    It should also not be possible to use the tab targeted system by accident. it should be set as a checkbox with the option to then bind a key to it.



    Things that are MAJORLY different then other games in terms of targetting, and movement - are things that people have been doing for over a decade now and are comfortable with.

    You cant setup innovation and change as the default. It needs to be presented to them that it is an option, what the benefits are, and let them discover, add it, and learn it in time.

    But if its continued to be forced on them when they log in, and they cant even walk around in the game, they just quit.

    Ive seen this happen personally and what i hear from people is "I cant play the game, its to hard to control my character".

    People arent ready to hear "oh no.. you just dont know how to control your character, because you have to use a keyboard and mouse differently then you have all your life"


    -My opinions, based on why my friends won't try the game for more than a half hour before they say no thanks.
     
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  2. Kara Brae

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    I can agree with everything in the OP.
     
  3. Feeyo

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    I agree with the jumping mechanics. It mostly suck. I don't think its a deal breaker at least for me. But yes, would be happy if it would improve.
     
  4. Thief

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    :( sad to hear. I guess instead of unity they could choose unreal engine and everything would be different.
     
  5. stile

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    I dont think its anything to do with the engie, so much as what defualts are set for a new player for the most part.

    It goes
    "log in"
    "I cant control my charecter"
    "log out"

    Me: well its designed that way.. you can also change, yadda

    Them: Glazed eyes hearing. the game was designed poorly and I have to spend hours customizing it.


    All this could be avoided by changing the default options on numerous things... and the first time someone hits jump put a big pop up in their face explaining it or some such.

    not they go into a game being able to control their character when they hit jump they understand it works differently.

    In time, if they like the game they'll explore the options menus in more depth, or hear about things from other players to try them.
     
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  6. stile

    stile Avatar

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    Id compare it to WASD

    In 1970's, every game I played used different movement keys.

    As time went on, I noticed that the industry adopted WASD as a standard set of movement keys. I've been using that for 20+ years now.

    If I jumped into a game, and WASD had been replaced by UHJK.. and someone is telling me its better, id just nod and smile. Your not going to convince me that retraining a lifetime of muscle memory for something as simple as four movement keys, in any way is going to be "better" for my game play.

    I feel that this would be a good euphemism for what is happening with some of the controls in Shroud.
     
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  7. Beaumaris

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    Interesting feedback. I’ve tab targeted and jumped in so many games that I really didn’t find any of this in SOTA to be a surprising or deal -breaking impediment. One alternative may be to remap keys to give these things a different tactile feel during gameplay. I know that made a difference for me for something as basic as just swapping E for F. Another choice is not to jump when stunned and either just accept the stun time or use another skill that can break the stun. Just some ideas for you.
     
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  8. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Ok. Let's WOW-ify the game.
     
  9. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I think some of this is valid, and it's not really WoW-ifying.

    Innovation is great when it matters. The deck system is a great example, as it allows players to go over and above what you can do with a static hotbar.

    Jumping doesn't do that. This isn't a game with a ton of jump puzzles, so having different jump heights is simply for player amusement. But because it does effect how it feels to control characters, it's more of an annoyance. So keeping it, but making it optional, seems like a great idea. If you get into a situation you can't jump exactly where you need to, turn it on. Otherwise, make jumping feel natural.
     
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  10. Cock of the North

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    It fascinates me how people seem to struggle using the keyboard and mouse to move and look around. Its pretty simple and straightforward imho and I have played many games that use that sort of control system.

    I mean, I walk around with WASD and I look around me with the mouse. Its about as simple as it gets.
     
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  11. Barugon

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    Sure, they could completely rewrite the game and deal with a totally different set of issues.
     
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  12. Floors

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    I agree the jump needs to be on hit. and not on release. But having said that, it's a really, really superficial thing that you get over within the first 10 hours.
     
  13. majoria70

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    I agree with the OP. I have experienced some form of that with players I've met. They just don't get the jump or they have troubles controlling their character because they hit the tab key which is quite often a targeting key in many games. Games that have really interesting jumping as in Ninga type jumping that allows you you to do fun jumping tricks like spinning in air etc well we definitely did not get that *sighs*.

    Our jumping takes time here to learn and does not do fantastic tricks well except if a dev turns it on for an event sometimes ;). And we do have many jumping puzzles. Like jumping up to the area to fight the Phoenix, In Grannus Colossus you walk on a log over poisoned water to the other side and in two places you must jump on tree stumps to get you to the other side. If you fall in the water you will surely die.

    Even though jumping in this game is not like other games it does still have a challenge associated with it. I have created puzzles for myself to practice jumping and while I am not perfect at it I am much better.

    I love to go exploring with a friend quite often and we have to do a lot of jumping to climb mountains to explore and try to find discoveries. Trying to teach this to new player takes some time. Holding the space bar longer and shorter intervals is needed and then pointing your character toward what you are trying to jump to is next step and letting go at the right time is also important. I always have my fingers on two key on my keyboard which are the space key and the w key. I thought about holding a Simon says Jump here event some time but so far I have not yet done that.

    I also agree that Zone chat should be defaulted in one window and I also would like that two chat windows for everyone should be sized and separated for everyone with a choice to change that if they want. One should have the zone defaulted in it and the other could have local defaulted in it. We already have it so you can place many chat windows where you like by dragging the tabs out and clicking on the blue flowers to customize them. I keep two chat windows side by side so I can be chatting in one with one person and chatting with zone perhaps in the other one. At least we can now customize our chat windows but I still find this is not something new people know right off so it would be great if some that was done for them. They should not be missing chats so much from others but yet have the ability to miss them if they like.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  14. Barugon

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    I absolutely hate when I'm moving, get stopped by some terrain feature, try to jump and nothing happens. I have to release whatever movement key I was holding in order to jump.
     
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  15. Numa

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    I've got a question I've been puzzled about for a long time. I can quick tap my attack key and my weapon quickly strikes or I can hold the attack key down and the weapon charges up - only firing upon release.

    Why can't the jump key work this way?
     
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  16. Barugon

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    It does. Both attack and jump activate on release. It's also the same for locked skills.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  17. Elnoth

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    I've been watching several first time playing reviews on youtube over the last few days and the feedback I've seen echoes what your friend experienced @Sir Stile Teckel.
     
  18. digriz

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    Most of these complaints the ones they call 'Trolls' have been warning them about for years. Its unfortunate its come to this. I guess it is what it is. I've seen a few twitch streamers quit in frustration as you've mentioned above.
     
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  19. Ryan Doge

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    The first item you acquire in the game is the New Player Handbook and it explains everything you mentioned. Movement and jumping being the first explained. If you don't read this book, I feel unable to consider this kind of feedback legitimate. I also don't consider legitimate the idea that you shouldn't have to read even a short instruction manual to play a video game.
     
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  20. Feeyo

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    Jump on release or jump on press. It does not matter to me. Holding jump to jump higher is a good feature.
    The problem is, that a lot of times when I press the jump key (press, hold, release) my character DOES NOT jump. It does nothing.
    This is the only thing what sometimes frustrates me. And would love to see improved a bit.

    But like I said earlier, if that is a deal breaker in a game.. there is something wrong with the player instead of the game really.

    This has nothing to do with which game engine you are using. So stating too bad its Unity3D is a statement that is utterly crap. Unity3D is a good engine and I do understand why they chose this engine.

    Also complaining about the button setup is just pure laziness really. If anyone does not like the default button setup, change it in the settings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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