My crystallised thoughts since I discovered SOTA in 2015

There’s been so much negativity on these forums of late that breaking the habit of a lifetime, i've gotten a bit feisty and defensive and had a snipe at one or two folk's posts. Apologies for that, everyone is entitled to an opinion and in the main, people who have the game’s best interest at heart are the one's that bother to post.

I've been taking an unhealthy interest in these criticisms, and for me, leaving aside the specifics of each criticism and looking at them from a helicopter, they seem to fall broadly into two categories:

• Polish: so many of the issues people talk about and which seems to upset and frustrate them is simple, easily fixable stuff: interface clarity and consistency, quest lists and directions, clarity on how to do basic stuff such as how buffs work, how the glyphs stack, the Heat system, Masterwork crafting, general bugs, strange inconsistencies, lag... etc, etc. All of these are easily fixable and most certainly will be fixed and are being. It’s a small team and a tight budget. People want polish, but they also want new content.

• Uniqueness / expectations: I could probably think of a better word for this. So many people seem discomforted that the game doesn’t work like they expect it to do and isn’t familiar. It doesn’t behave like they are used to from other MMOs. For example, SOTA doesn’t make it clear what your avatar level means, it leaves you to figure out the quests, you have to work out how combat and advancement works and what is best for your play style. SOTA expects you to earn your corn by learning the game through trial and error.

I've played every MMO under the sun. I play computer games too much. Thank the deities I have a forgiving wife! I have played many MMOs and loved some: EQ(1&2), EVE, POTBS, ESO, Ryzom, GWII, SWTOR, LOTRO, FFXIV.. SOTA is my recent addiction, though I've followed it since 2015, and was at first unimpressed. Recently i've cancelled subscriptions to FFXIV and BDO as I simply wasn’t playing them. SOTA is quirky and unpolished but I am totally hooked on it.

So i’m minded to ask people to consider what SOTA is, what is good and unique and not what it’s not good..

The community - I don’t just mean people are generally nice. They are helpful, considerate, honest, fair, fun and communal. I have NEVER attended or wished to attend a dance party in an MMO in my life… I had a hangover after the last one I will be attending the one in Lux after the next release if I can. The music system in SOTA is awesome, and combine this with the amazing community and you actually have a great time getting down to some actually very good DJ sets.

It’s beautiful - yes I know it can look crumby sometimes, and it seems to get grainy in certain lights (polish), but there are some locations and situations where SOTA is breathtaking.

The combat - locked deck? unlocked deck with stacking and combos? Heat system? What do i put on my utility bar? Do I use a buff deck? How do I deal with those damned fire mages and death magic jockeys? Awesome. I actually have to think about a build and how to approach every scene I enter. Weapons, foods, glyphs and a seemingly infinite range of options. The deck system could be easier (polish).

Crafting - Yes crafting! I love that materials can be varied and apply their own buffs. I like the concept of Masterworking and it will keep getting better. Crafting, as with much if SOTA has a base platform that allows for pretty much anything.

The Overworld Map- I wasn’t sure about this navigation system at first, but at dawn and dusk, with the setting and rising sun and a mist it can look incredible. But aesthetics aside, the Overworld provides a canvas for an incredible range of events and dynamically added content of just about any nature. Wandering mobs, instanced combat, special locations and events, invasions, world bosses, rare resource events, all within the same map footprint without looking crowded.

The overarching story and lore - I didn’t play UO (sorry!) but I’m getting increasingly engrossed with the story line (as it gets polished) the Cabal, the Obsidians, the notion of the Avatar and the Outlander. I've looked up Tracy Hickman on Amazon and his Dragonlance series is very highly regarded. He and Lord Garriott have two of the most refined fantasy imaginations in gaming and the story can only get more amazing going forward if we continue to fund and support SOTA.

The technology - SOTA is developed in Unity. Yes I know it looks like Chris hates it! but I think every lead programmer hates the tools they develop in. It does seem that Unity has its fair share of bugs, and challenges, but I have seen some amazing Unity games and Unity 2018, which is currently being tested for the next release, looks like a breakthrough product and excites me a great deal as it looks like a huge upgrade.

https://www.pcgamer.com/what-indie-developers-think-of-unity-in-2018/

The uniqueness - for me this isn’t something that makes me uncomfortable, it makes me love SOTA. I see stuff every day, whether pre programmed or as a result of the underlying intelligent game mechanics, that seems, to my eye, spontaneous and dynamic, dramatic, funny and absorbing. I smile often and probably read way to much into the occasional strange and immersive event but it draws me ever deeper..

The future… This is the biggie, the intangibles.. With Unity maybe now going from strength to strength, the unmatched imaginations and experience of the SOTA team, creatively and technically. The lore, the Story, the game foundations: the OW map, instancing, zones, random encounters, well set-up core systems for combat, crafting (not so much quests, but that is acknowledged by Starr, and in the end it's polish, the imagination of the content will be fantastic)...

This is just a personal view as I hold my breath for announcements on chapter 2.

Chapter 2 won’t happen of course if the negativity outweighs the positivity. Things always get rocky after a game launch when new folks, who aren’t long established with alpha and beta testing, come on board with their assumptions and expectations and try to get their heads around stuff. With this community however, I just know Chapter 2 will happen. How can it not?

 

I have the best people living in my town...

 

Snap...

I have played most mmo's as well but SotA does feel more like a home than any of the others. EvE was great in that you can control territory and it gives a meaning to the game, but the interaction you felt by your character and the world was never there for me. Here the world feels more personal and although you cant make your mark on it as you can in EvE the graphics/environment/weather/cycles of day and home ownership/decorating/character appearance make it feel welcoming and 'real' and unique in the areas it does very well. What other games offers a player so much choice in the design of their appearance/home...none.

The game though has many bad points but nothing that cant be fleshed out and made great. Factions/agriculture/fishing/quests/farming/cooking/animals/seasons/ a proper economy with proper regional meaning/ resource ownership and so many more areas the game is lacking in but doesn't need to be. If they can flesh out and make them as innovative as character/home customisation and the combat system which i love the game is still going to be a winner. The game is not necessarily bad missing all these points, its just not complete imo.

Its not going to happen as the monthly streams(financials) are matched to the releases but i would love them to at least cut down on the 'new' content and flesh out everything we already have. World builders can still build but i would even hold off releasing that content for 6 months or even until Episode 2 launch. Imo, to frequent release of content produces bugs/incomplete systems and actually cuts down on hype as its just another months release. Also, with too much being released a returning player can also feel overwhelmed with catching up on all the new changes, usually too much for me and i don't bother if i missed to many updates in a mmo's life, i feel to far behind the curve.

I want a AAA experience and MORE in all the games areas i mentioned lacking before, i know that's a tall order but i still think they are up to the task, they HAVE managed it with the good points i have mentioned above. All i think for me personally that's lacking from the game is the meat on the bones. We have the bones now, we just lacking the meat....and i want SotA to be a fat old girl

That was a great game actually which unfortunately didn't take off If we can have that quality of ship content/combat here...will be epic. I did have the pleasure of causing a 109 page rant from a disgruntled Spanish Player that lost his giant galleon(the first in the game) though against mine and 2 others rowing boats....One of my crowning mmo moments, the ship kill not the rant

Edit: Just done a search for POTBS, first in years, there's not many vids for it but tis the latest and ironically has a great title and soundtrack to accompany this thread.

Spoiler: POTBS

 

I have come to realize there are some community members who are not good for the community. Let me explain:

These are people with thousands of hours of playtime that don't say positive things, they only say negative things, and they say them here, on reddit, on steam, on massively and other fan sites, and they create and want to create a negative narrative of doom and misery and suck other people into it with them.

Misery loves company.

They literally have played 1,000-1,500 hours of the game, which is an incredibly large amount of playtime for people that supposedly don't like much about the game.

I find these people to be incredibly toxic and dangerous to the success of online games like this one because of the false narratives they create and help to perpetuate.

It seems like MMOs in particular have more of these types than other games, or it matters less to other game types. I have especially seen them on Star Citizen and here.

These people truly are unwelcome, IMO.

 

It's simple: what game do I think about playing when I'm working? SotA.

I could play countless other PC, Ps4, or Switch games. But when I have any spare time I load up SotA. It's just the most fun I'm having now in gaming.

Sure, it's not perfect, but when has perfection become the deciding factor in assigning value? It's a straw argument, actually. World of Warcraft isn't perfect, but it's still wonderful. God of War and Witcher 3 aren't perfect, but they are amazing fun. The Giants aren't even .500 but I still love them. My kid farts a lot, but I love her more than anything on Earth. Ghandi helped free 1/4 of humanity in 1947, but he dismissed the importance of including Muslims in the otherwise heavily Hindu-influenced movement hence leading to the bloody Partition.

Nothing is perfect. Why hold SotA up to such an impossible standard? I love it despite its imperfections, simply because it's still great fun for me to play.

It's simple.

 

I’ve been playing since around R48-49, and as all the various releases have come out, it’s quite clear they do have a plan and follow it as much as they can.

I completely understand game development. Things take time, resources and a good plan in place. They also have a MUCH lower budget to work with.

Are there system/functions I wish they would work on first? Sure! But there are things I just don’t know as well. Like I wish they would implement a new Quest Architecture. Do I know how much resources, time and money that would require? Nope! But I do know it would take considerable amounts of all 3.

I feel they have a solid plan in place, and continue to work towards that as they can.

 

Whilst we are in the helicopter looking down on game lets not be too dismissive of WHY there are people with negative opinions. Unlike most of the previous games you mentioned many of these negative players invested real money (backers) and before persistance 100s if not 1000s of hours. Their negativity may come from disillusinment in what they thought the game should be and what the devs made it. I feel tthe devs have been very open with thier direction and honest. But when you invest time and money your views could be skewed a bit.

I for one love the game and plan to stay positive and provide constructive criticism to help the game improve, and if the devs choose not to act on my inputs, well it is thier game and thier vision so I will happily adjust my views.


Lets be bigger than the critics, stay positive and enjoy

 

Unity sucks, it's an ancient set of tools. Lumberyard is where it's at.

/driveby posting

 

I've been here since the beginning , and I have also played most of the top games over the years. This game is still a baby, growing month by month. The team has done an absolute incredible job to this point.
Considering they have learned from the mistakes of the past, have passionate high skill folks working on the game. I would just say... stay tuned... This game is barely scratching its potential. Rome was not built in a day.
If you have paid attention, and see the vision Richard has, and Starr and the team are creating, this will be the best game ever.. give it time.. There will always be the negative people and remarks, and they are likely the
competition trying to sabotage the game...lets not be swayed by negativity. I sure as hell pay no attention to stupid complaints and people crying over silly things. Patience is a virtue!

 

Patience is fine with me, I held on for years and watched (of course complained some too). But now that the game is launched, it should be held to the same standard of any other released project.

You do NOT launch a game until it's finished. So all of the negative remarks are warranted on them, I just pray the low number of players and increased negativity just get the team in gear to actually finish the game. I still have my hopes for this game, so I haven't given up.

One of the things that gets at me is for years they said they were crowdfunding the game so they didn't have to deal with crap like publisher deadlines. Yet they just released an unfinished game... Why did they use our money if they are going to use deadlines of launch anyways? That feels pretty dishonest. And after looking at their financial reports, it becomes clearer why they launched the game, they don't have much money left.

 

Also, steam numbers are now back to pre-launch numbers. This should be terrifying to literally everyone.

http://steamcharts.com/app/326160#3m

 

The negativity, at least in my view, seems to be at an all time low. Yes, it's still here but there have been times when I've completely avoided the General forum because it was so toxic.

 

UO wasn't Finished when it launched... and still isn't.
Everquest wasn't Finished when it launched. And I think even this one is still kicking.
WoW wasn't Finished when it launched... and still isn't.
EvE wasn't Finished when it launched... and still isn't.

No game since Games ceased to be Packaged Goods and became Online Services was Finished when it Launched.
Even what would have been stand alone fire and forget take the team to Barbados for a couple weeks after it's out the door RPG titles are digital services that get expansions and updates for a couple of years until the next version comes out. Same with the Sports Titles that come out Every Year.

 

What's "finished"?

 

'Zackly.

 

Simple, the crux.

You both are confusing progression with finished.

finished is all the basic systems are in place and working as intended. Are you seriously unfamiliar with why patches go in stages from things like 1.0 > 1.3 > 1.55 > 2.0? There is no way you are unaware of that. Each whole number is the bar at which the developers felt the current landscape was finished, beyond that is progression.

Let's move away from MMOs and try this;

A TV is finished when it works properly and the manufacturer is happy that their product will be consumed and enjoyed properly. Them also moving onto HD, HDD and whatnot doesn't mean tube TVs were unfinished, it means the progression of TVs were advancing, as with the other games you mentioned. But each new TV set they released was in working proper order when released.

We are still in the basic foundation stages of SotA.

 

Maybe this will help;

There's a ton of different Final Fantasy games out there, they continued the saga with each one, right? But each game could stand on its own as a finished game. How pissed would you be if you bought FF1 and it ended as soon as you got the airship because they released the game without advancing that plot any further? You would be mad you bought an unfinished game.

tl;dr finished = you met your goals. unfinished = there's work to be done on the foundation still.

 

I'm also puzzled why it was launched when many core aspects are not complete or still needs a great deal of work. The community is awesome, but it's a shame because the game's just not ready. I plan on checking back on the game's state in about a year to see the progress.

 

OUTSTANDING POST!
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It is old thinking they are stuck in. We are no longer in the age of "finalized gaming software" but "gaming software platforms" being shipped. These platforms form the foundation for future growth. SoTA has delivered on the core gameplay promises (sans on-going polish which will continue as game expands) and even nailed many of the original stretch goals. It has also proven to be a platform for future growth. While MMOs have pioneered it, this new (smart) practice, as we moved away from physical mediums and leverage digital distribution to expand the original title, has even crept into consoles. From BurnOut Paradise pulling it off on last gen platforms first, on to Destiny, Fortnite and the current Rainbow 6 which defying all odds is in its what, 3rd season, going from atrocious reviews to stellar for Ubisoft.

Derium and Xev are being willingly ignorant of the amazing progress this game has made over the past 2 years over 24 releases (it is astounding) and fail to acknowledge this is a platform, that with support, can continue to significantly expand and grow. Also shows an ignorance of the larger trend being exhibited by successful games. Is League of Legends finished? No. It's audience continues to grow, new content continues to be added, the game continues to balance as new additions are added becoming an ever changing experience. Was Fortnite finished when it launched as a PVE game? No. It was a gaming software platform they could experiment, iterate on, and improve upon to the point they've taken over the battle royale PVP gaming mode once dominated by other titles.

SoTA has proven to be an amazing platform, and sky is the limit; mounts, return of traveling gypsy caravans between towns, airships!, sea travel, new lands, the next Avatar story arch, etc
see: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...de-1-content-plans-aka-the-2-year-plan.97521/ )