Game reviews are well challanged to be nice

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Olddog, May 22, 2018.

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  1. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    This, a hundred times this.

    We have a super helpful community who have made forum threads, videos, walkthroughs, hints, spoilers, guides, resources, downloadable utilities like umuri's hud and online apps like cabclock, recipe databases, emote location guides, guides on where to buy things, guides on where to find things, tables and tables and excel sheet after excel sheet but there's still a lot of basic information that simply isn't documented. Like explaining to a player who's been fiddling with the game for a week or so that nope, these two buffs don't stack with each other even though nothing says that,and many other scenarios that come about. The other thing that gets mentioned to me a lot is that low lvl areas are mixed in with high level areas somewhat arbitrarily, and after the outskirts (assuming they could find the outskirts, and didn't assume it meant 'outside the town like area in solace bridge (or equivalent) and not an entirely different scene) - people flounder a bit with where they should go.

    I'm thankful that I got "scooped up" by helpful players straight out of Soltown back in the day. I don't know if I'd have stuck with the game without the community support. And the community support is amazing - no doubt about it - but I think the game itself could do with being a lot more informative. Lets start by scrapping the quest journal.....:X
     
  2. Baratan

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    I made a crafting guide and handbook available in game, can be found on display at the Outlander Welcome Center or purchased for carry from the town vendor there or the public vendor at Ardoris.
     
  3. Elwyn

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    I'm now seeing a great need for this on a T-shirt as a mutation of the "Straight outta Compton" meme.
     
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  4. bugmaster77

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    New player here.

    I'll add my two cents in because I don't think people that were KS supporters are putting themselves in the same mindset as new players. The majority of posts I am seeing in the forums are clearly players that have been playing before the game went live, going on post count alone.

    Sure, wall of text--Don't bother reading it if you really don't care.

    First, I found out about SotA by word-of-mouth from a old UO player...three weeks ago. I played UO since 1999 and somehow I fell through a marketing gap, not hearing a single whisper about this game through any of the UOers I still spoke with. And, more importantly, NONE of them had heard of SotA either! Marketing failure? I don't know.

    I think the reviews would be worse if they were written by people that had played UO back in the early days. As is, most of the reviews I read after finding out about SotA seemed to lament the differences between SotA and WoW-like MMOs--The reviewers were expecting something more WoW-Like and their disappointment showed when they wrote the reviews. Personally, I prefer to see things for myself.

    As soon as I loaded the Game Trial, I began looking at housing. I remember what it was like logging into the Pacific server in UO for the first time, with placing a house in mind (less than 9 months after the game came out), only to find that every single lot had already been taken. It literally took two years of playing to be able to buy a small wood and plaster cottage for HALF A MILLION gps from a player (a deed was only 34k). So, I started playing SotA with the goal of placing a house before that happened again. I looked around at the various houses available and decided on what my goal would be--A large houseboat. I was seeing plenty of empty lots in PoTs, so it didn't look like I was going to be in the same situation as I was in UO. I bought the game. I started playing with that in mind as my goal, gathering what I can to sell for gold, looking into forum posts on how best to do that, and paying close attention to the housing already in place, trying to get a feel for where I would want to live.

    Then, I discover this line buried in the Player Help Page...
    " As of Release 15, only Citizen Founders (or higher) with Founder deeds can claim water lots."

    WTF!?

    The more I played, the more cities I explored, the closer I came to a realization. This game IS Pay-To-Play. The difference from other P2P games is that the advantage of doing so has passsed--Only the Supporters of development of the game were given the advantages of paying (through KS donations/pledges). That realization alone was enough for me to consider quitting, remembering my experiences with housing in UO. Housing is, for some, the primary goal of the game. It is the reward for all the play up to that point. So, what I am seeing now is the stage being set up for the exact same issues that UO had. Worse, this not the result of some oversight or poor planning, but the rather a conscious decision to give these long-lasting advantages to players that paid money for them.

    Let me describe what I am seeing now.
    The majority of the housing in the NPC cities is apparently unused. I have yet to see a single player in their house, actually logged in and IN their house. The best locations are often EMPTY houses, perhaps with an empty vendor out front. MANY have signs stating they are for sale or rent. In short, I've come to the conclusion that the houses placed by KS supporters are the Pay-To-Play function--Those players that supported development have essentially been given a HUGE advantage when it comes to housing, the houses themselves becoming perpetual sources of income(rental functions), while at the same time preventing future players, like myself, from ever even having a shot at those lots. And, considering that there was never a server wipe when the server went live, competition with other players was never really a factor for Supporters.

    Simply put, supporters have been given a massive headstart that negatively effects ALL NEW PLAYERS. Considering that a high proportion of the players coming here are ex-UO players, the disadvantage of this, to them, is OBVIOUS.
    That alone, could be enough to drive players away. It almost drove me away.

    I get the distinct feeling that many supporters are not currently playing the game, but rather sitting on properties they know they will be able to sell later. The rental functions serve the owners well in this regard--As long as they charge more for rent than they pay in taxes, they can perpetuate this situation for as long as it takes to hold on to the property until such time that they can sell the house for a huge profit, just like the guy that sold me my first house in UO. That guy made a profit of 466,000 gold from a 34, 000 gold investment simply by sitting on a property. I already see the same thing happening here. Throw in a Dupe Bug, and we're back to 2001, with a totally screwed economy based on RL purchases/RL Profit motivations and artificial inflation.

    I have never forgotten the moment I came to the realization that the housing properties in UO were being traded for real money, out-of-game. I see zero reason that can't happen here. In fact, all the signs that it will happen are already in place, claimed-yet-empty lots, huge castles with nothing in them, water front lots that clearly have never been used but have a nice big, empty ship placed in them, etc, etc. That being said, when housing is valued in REAL DOLLARS (as I suspect this is the goal of many supporters, to "make back" their "donations"), the entire in-game economy will feel the effects of wealthy players simply "out-bidding" everyone else. The RL wealthy will simply buy lots/housing for RL money, leaving the rest of us to compete for the scraps, with de-valued in-game gold.

    A server wipe at game launch would have prevented much of this. With a server wipe, you would have had a fair-playing field for all players--including new ones--and I suspect, as a result, the game would have had a much bigger initial rush of players, all competing for the best locations. You would also have those houses filled with people actually playing the game, instead of property speculators that simply login to pay taxes, etc. As is, the NPC towns feel empty--some new players, but the property owners are nowhere to be seen. Too late to fix that now. As a result, the housing speculators in these cities are killing the flow of people to these towns--No reason to go to a town full of empty houses.

    Economies are supposed to be competitive in nature. Where's the competition when the economy has already been diluted by all the resources that Supporters have been hoarding for ages? Makes my measly pile of ore look valueless in the greater scheme of things. It's like the Chinese flooding our markets with cheap goods--The end result is a bunch under-paid Newbies.

    I've mentioned this game to all of my old UO buddies and most have tried the game after getting my emails. Several are staying, but the only one that didn't even try the game was the one that got an email from me...and I mentioned that the housing was potentially heading to the same place as it was in UO (He asked about it). He didn't want anything to do with the game after he heard that. "Let me know if that doesn't happen." was his response, implying he'd consider playing if the housing situation didn't parallel the housing in UO.

    So, I expect you'll be finding players that have come to the same conclusion as me--Unless you were a supporter, you're already at a disadvantage. But, they won't be able to come to this conclusion until they have learned this first-hand. The Free trial allows people to see the similarities to the f'ed up economy of UO, and the possibilty of the same thing here...and leave.

    TL;DR Some new players have recognized the hidden Pay-to-Play aspect built into the game with Supporter Perks and simply don't want to deal with it. I now live in a figurative Land of Peons and Lords, the Lords simply being (Land)Lords because they PAYED REAL MONEY at some point in the past. Built-in resentment for new players will drive them away faster than anything else.

    There is already a "1%" in SotA, and not beacuse they competed well, but because they paid well.

    My Two Cents,
    Cozy Firesong
     
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  5. hammadowna

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    You lost me when you said the game was pay 2 win. Where is this sentiment coming from? You can definitely "win" without paying! I trust in the devs and so should you.
     
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  6. bugmaster77

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    @ Baron Frank Dragon

    "Where is this sentiment coming from?"

    If you actually read my post, you'd know.
     
  7. hammadowna

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    I suppose. I read your post and disagree.
     
  8. kaeshiva

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    Hi Cozy, thanks for your insight.
    I will try to assuage a few of your concerns here....

    RMT sales/trades of deeds (including founder water deeds) happens all the time, there's an entire forum section dedicated to selling deeds. Pledge rewards, telethon rewards, resources, experience, there is a thriving market for all sorts of things, so if you missed the early supporter, you can buy an account usually for only a bit more than the original pledge was worth. Sometimes less if someone's liquidating their assets.

    The 'founder' water deeds are unique in that they are tax free. I missed that cutoff myself, but traded in game stuff for a tax free village lot for my lighthouse. In fact, my husband and I have over the last 18 months earned two tax free town size deeds(we use these for the crafting museums) and a half a dozen village size deeds all from in-game means - whether that is mining ore and selling it for gold and trading gold for cash to buy bundles, or various other transaction types. We play a LOT, though. But its absolutely achievable.

    You can get a taxed water deed from the addon store for $ or in game for COTOs, which you can save up for and buy from players for in game gold.

    You make a valid point about all the empty lots and such. There are a lot of towns where you'll see players hanging around their houses ALL THE TIME. These are usually player towns though, because the layout and setup is more convenient, the crafting areas have expert benches, and player towns have other benefits like devotionals, centralized npc merchants, etc. Just earlier tonight there were 8 of us crammed in my pavilion crafting stuff and hanging out. You don't see this as often in the npc cities, partially due to how the land rush was, I guess - but most 'communities' exist in the player owned town sector.

    A server wipe did happen, in July 2016, when persistence was announced. And then we did have a landrush, and a fair playing field, where everyone went and picked their lots and such. Persistence really was 'soft' launch for a lot of us. It was announced months in advance and everyone who wanted to be in on the ground floor had the opportunity to - provided you knew about the game. If you only learned of it recently, its just like starting any other game after a year or two ....but you can absolutely catch up, and you can absolutely get all the stuff - except maybe exclusive titles/emotes, unless you were to actually buy an account off someone. Though that's an option.

    Re: the economy - ore prices have been fairly stable since pretty much day 1. There've been ups and downs with changes to gathering/mining and some scenes, but its still the most valuable commodity you can go gather really. Because of the significant waste of the crafting system, absurd amounts of materials are required to make gear that degrades pretty quickly.

    I will say that while if you want to throw several thousand dollars at the game to buy resources, gear, powerlevelling, etc. for RMT, yeah, you'll get a head start. And that's a choice that you can make.
    But some of the most successful players I know have never spent a cent beyond the box price and have, quite proudly, earned everything via in-game play.

    When I asked I don't call this game pay to win, I call it 'pay to skip ahead' - cause yeah, you can. But you miss a lot of the journey, too. Even without 'paying to win' - there are people who started at release who are already ahead of many supporters who have been here since day 1 due to the amount of time they invest. I know people who own massive castles and can't fight their way out of a 3 skull zone, and other people who come in at minimum box price investment and are past 3 skull zones in a few days play. There's simply no substitute for actually playing the game.

    Don't be discouraged by not getting in early enough, with perserverence you can earn almost everything except for like, expired account-bound cosmetics or emotes - which is a fair enough early backer award, I'd say, no?

    Lastly, I'll say that it is soo sooo much easier starting out now, easier than it ever was. While yes if you're just starting now you're 'behind' the average, but there's a lot of stuff you have that we didn't starting out -

    More polished questing experience - goal orientation
    3 low level outskirts scenes filled with quests giving you a significant starting xp, money boost.
    Questable armor pieces for lower levels
    LOTS and LOTS of people selling gear for rock bottom throwaway prices for new folks
    There's now three low lvl ore mines to get you right into crafting, these didn't exist until fairly recently.
    Players have devoted their towns to the new player experience- towns like S Mart factorium that give players essentially refining work orders to earn coin for work. Players have created massive libraries of information, tutorial, guides, etc. both in and out of game. The crafting museum I mentioned earlier is one such resource - to showcase all possible material types and bonuses so you don't have to muddle through trying to figure it out. We do tours. Call me.

    When we started back in mid-2016, none of this stuff was there. We bravely went in our non-stat founder gear to brave the tier 1 scenes and got our butts kicked. Starting now is easier than ever. Levelling now is easier than ever. And there's double XP on pretty much half the time - this never happened prior to launch. I see people who started at launch who can fight the same places I fight, maybe not quite as fast, but I've got nearly 18 months on them. The softcap system evens the playfield pretty quickly for most players. There's THOSE players...that mainline caffeine and play 24 hrs a day...sure...but there are those players in every game. Can't catch em. Don't worry about em.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
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  9. bugmaster77

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    @ Baron Frank Dragon

    OK, I'll bite.

    Summary:

    The Economy in SotA was screwed before the game ever went live, in the following ways.

    The value of resources are controlled by Supporters.
    The fact that there was already massive quantities of resources stored by these people when the server went live allows them to set pricing, making it harder for new players to compete. Supply and demand are seriously out of balance, as a result. They also have the best locations to sell their stored resources.
    This is a direct result of those players being paying supporters.

    The value of housing is controlled by Supporters.
    The value of all housing is relative to the value of the most desired lots., those lots all being in the hands of Supporters and none being available for new players. Supply and demand are seriously out of balance.
    This is a direct result of those players being paying Supporters.
    Current "Rental" mechanics perpetuate this situation.

    The decision to allow this to happen was a concious one. This need not be pointed out by reviews online, but can be determined by anyone simply by playing the trial game, provided one knows where to look in-game (as most Veteran-UO players would).

    Cozy Firesong

    PS: I would HATE to see this game fail. As I said, I bought it. I support it, I already LOVE it. I'm just stating the facts as I see them. And, your little "Wizard behind the Green Curtain" act is a little insulting, to be honest.
     
  10. bugmaster77

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    @kaeshiva

    While most of what you say supports my statements, you have pointed out something that I had not considered--The focus is on COMMUNITY based cities, not the NPC towns.

    While the NPC towns are more "accessible" in term of new players finding them (and the vendors), all the disadvantages that I spoke of only exist in the NPC towns.

    That being said, I can ignore them in MY greater scheme of things.
    I suppose, in hindsight, I've simply been given loftier goals than I had first imagined.

    Cozy Firesong
     
  11. kaeshiva

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    I don't think I've shopped in any of the big npc towns in months, unless I happen to be there for a quest related purpose. Most of my business I do in player towns near my hunting grounds or in the player markets, which tend to have a much better vendor layout and are managed by players who get rid of inactives and replace them with active vendors, etc. Same thing for choosing a place to live really - I've definitely noticed a shift in the last year. As you say, so many of the good spots in npc towns are taken up by big fat inactives who log in once a year to renew the lot with plans to either play later or try to sell the location....once you play long enough you learn where the good places to go are. I agree this should be more evident to the new player, but there's loads of players who dedicate much of their time to finding and showing new folks the way.
     
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  12. Anvar

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    Your very wrong here, speaking as an early backer, I have played the game but only purchased the account not a bundle, I now own several houses ingame and am currently over half way towards my next goal of a town
    house ALL for ingame money, and I only started saving towards that after launch.
    There are many ways to aquire the housing ingame outside of any real money transaction and there are several threads about it.
    Also youll find alot of the housing for rent is very cheap and often even free, and people tend to be at their houses like they were in uo, for social events or dumping loot or some crafting, its the same here just more instanced.
     
  13. Elwyn

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    I think those only apply to POT water lots.
     
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  14. jschoice

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    I have come to realize that gamers and especially MMO gamers like to be toxic on games. I stopped reading Steam Reviews or Readit because frankly people like to hate on things. I have my share of issues with SotA, but being objective about it there is a lot of cool stuff here that frankly other MMO's just don't have. I have over 2000+ hours played across 2 accounts. ESO is at 900 hours, FFXIV is around 420, Guild Wars 2 around 400, SWTOR at 300. That is my current top 5 MMO's in hours played recently. I have tried almost everything since UO. Most MMO's get hate and have failed with 3 times the budget that SotA has.

    A lot of people complain about balance or more so nerfs that have been happening. Again this is a common gripe about MMO's mostly from Min/Maxers. I am a recovered min/maxer. We like to figure out how to deal/or heal damage quickly to maximize our XP and gold gain. So once our "perfect" build gets a nerf we tend to pout and claim the world is about to end. I have changed my thinking on this. Once I decided to not min/max, I started having fun gaming again. I actually applaud SotA for being aggressive with changes as too many bigger games like ESO have left unbalance in for years reducing playstyle to one particular way. WoW and ESO is perfect examples if you aren't geared correctly and running a particular build you will never be part of end game groups period. I have 4 different toons in SotA., all completely different from each other and all equally fun. The community in SotA is fun and helpful.

    Another complaint I hear is how grindy the game is, yet I read comments on Readit about wanting Vanilla WoW back. Thbey must of forgotten how grindy that game was or the original EQ, but games which has a significant amount of unbalance and bugs as well. In fact there hasn't been a MMO to release without issues, FFXIV needed to be completely redone, ESO was hurting, Vanguard does anyone even remember that one, Wildstar (derp), Archage (nopt a great NA release) and is anyone following Bless these days. In fact I hear people complaining about WoW's new expansion. We are in a world where we tend to focus on the negatives more then the positives a game has to offer. That does not mean we should not voice constructive feeback. I think Port has been more open to our feedback then the vast majority of game developers.

    At the end of the day, the important part of gaming is to enjoy playing it. Every game is not for everyone, I would rather walk on hot coals then to play Fortnite or WoW
     
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  15. Tetsu Nevara

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    Some peole just play the game to make money out of the RMT System.
    Wouldnt have changed anything because of the "Landrush" System they had on final wipe. New Players had to wait like 90 days before they can claim deeds.

    Hey wrote pay to play, not pay to win
     
  16. Deadly Habit

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    Eh I'm one of those critical people who left a negative review on Steam, but prefaced and closed it with the stipulation of play the free trial don't take my word. I def can say I got my moneys worth and then some with over 1k hours in game and having recovered costs via RMT. Part of why I stick around, follow, am critical, etc is the sunk cost fallacy (in my case now it would be hours you don't get back).

    What gets frustrating and why you see less and less critical people here is the same issues keep getting brought up and nothing seems to change or it gets the hand wave of on the Jira/EP 2.
    I'm not rooting for the game to fail, but what I see is a niche MMO (not a problem), with a niche community (can be a problem) who dismiss vocal critique as "trolls", and a disconnect when it comes to what the overly positive people say vs the reviews be it professional or amateur.

    I'm keeping up with the game as like I said sunk so many hours in, met some damn cool people, and hope it shapes up to a game I'd like to spend hundreds of more hours in. A good example was the Pemwar Island quest, I had a blast with that and other guildies for like 3 1/2 hours just solving it. Sadly once I did that and the revised Tennebris Harbor I was bored again and there are so many other games not just MMOs on the market that I've moved on while watching the game from afar to a degree and trying to keep up.
     
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  17. jschoice

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    I am not saying that your review is inaccurate, but many I have read are and not just about SotA every MMO seemed to get dump on in steam or readit. What I do find here on the forums is a lot of people who are min/maxers complaining that the Devs nerf their build once they had a time to review the data. I applaud Port for paying attention to balance issues, so many other MMOs allow the in balance to continue for years such as WoW, ESO, and Rift. When I was a min/maxer I figured out that as a ranger I could macro all my damage abilities on one key. It was practically the only build that could do that effectively. What did you see? Everyone played the same ranger build and use the same 1 key macro. There are morphs in ESO today with a brand new expansion that still are useless skills so if you don't run X build forget being allowed in a trial. My biggest grip about SotA is that it has been pretty easy if you have time to find ways to farm large quantities of XP and gold. Prior to the "tank" nerf my Paladin build could fight endless mobs with barely losing health. Even with the changes which so many people complained about I still feel fairly invincible in PvE farming. Now I am seeing death to archers, my ranger built which is almost 100% ranged attacks with gust, buffs and heals thrown in still have no problem kiting several melee between using gust and crippling shot.

    The fact that players, myself included can pretty much solo everything in game does not make for a fun experience. Siege encounters, Boss mobs, and control points and lower level of dungeons should not be soloable. They should be designed for parties or with npcs in single player. If I wanted to be a solo "god" I would play Path of Exile. A part from social events there is no reason to group or interact with other players in SotA. I always found it odd that there are so many nice looking tier 1, 2, and 3 scenes, but I can level a toon to 80 in a very short amount of time where I can handle Tier 4 and some Tier 5 areas with crap gear. So I applaud every effort Port makes to slow us down and deliver a good experience at each tier level. In UO it took me 7 years to get 7 time GM without using any exploit like the 8x8 method and I enjoyed every frustrating minute of it because I belonged to a fun guild on a great server with a equally fun community. That is where SotA needs to be in my opinion.
     
  18. Hunter Rose

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    Bingo - if you look at successful MMOLRPG franchises pm steam... most reviews are mixed. I know people that spend all their time in Skyrim online and Conan Exile, and even they will say - well it would be perfect but... The bottom line is are you having fun? If you are you will probably keep playing if you aren't - you won't. I play this game because it entertains me not because someone reviewed and and gave it poor marks because it doesn't lead you by the nose to an enjoyable experience 51 out of 100 times. And yes everyone has an opinion especially it seems gamers, and especially it seems MMOLRPG gamers. Everyone is looking for that thing the law of diminishing returns denies us. It's going to grade below because you've play 20+ of these things before and it's not like taking your first few steps in WoW or DaOC, or EQ, or Shadowbane, or... the list goes on and on. Play the game if you have fun. Not because someone tells you why should shouldn't have fun playing a game.
     
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  19. Xkillerz

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    I now have over 400 hours in sota. My review would be positively looking how many hours of gameplay it gave me already and to come. Yes this game got a lot of work to do still but when you are really playing and having fun you can forget bugs and not perfect things.

    Overall for this game to survive it needs to sit closer to the community to go onwards towards a polished completed game. What people like to play and get a few big twitchers in their pocket so they can get huge amounts of people in. I don't see housing as pay 2 win but as a buyable decoration. AAA spots might cost some money in major market hubs but that was in every game normal demand.

    Backers complain and new players complain and are both right because they look from a different view. Both have expectations. But its easy to rant those days on things while not adding anything to the discussion. Yes there are good reviews out there also on the negative ones there is plenty of feedback to get out.

    Still, I feel more people should at least try the trial before judging the game it was more fun then I expected at first. We should be at around 1000 + steam players already by now so promotion has to be more aimed then just facebook promotion in my opinion. Of course, no idea where all promotions are tried on now. Try to get players from the game archeage into this game they are tired of playing that game and yes SOTA might be slower then archeage but SOTA is not pay 2 win while archeage is. Archeage has a lot of features that SOTA also have no I totally not recommend to even try out archeage I quitted that game years ago because of p2w. Sota is the better game for sure just more people in the world need to know that. :)

    Quick feedback on the video about the dancing its nice but it should have been about housing also showing the unique housing interface while placing decorations and more like even take the effort in cloning this on the dev server and see it build in a fast-paced speed on the video. Then you jump back to the dancing video as you can create everything. That video would have pulled a lot of potential MMO housing fans. While in my feedback posts I always try to offer a solution else I would not even start about something if it was just a rant since I like the game. I don't mind writing feedback. I do project management in an IT company so it's kinda natural for me to go into a feedback role. Of course this is a video game but still, I would like this game to evolve in one of the top 5 MMOs in the near future.

    SOTA has not a very big dev team. So they can only work at an x amount of things at the same time. I am happy how the new content is rolling out. Still, I recommend focus 1 full month on only polishing existing content and bug fixing and UI upgrades. People would like that a lot. Watch every reviewer video again like thelazypeon and listen carefully to what their complaints are. Of course also the good points. It's also important to know that most reviewers only play within 1-24 hours but that's also the time frame for new players deciding if they like the game or not. That experience has to be top notch.
     
  20. majoria70

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    He didn't say pay to win
     
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