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The Shroud Nerf and how its not going to fix the problem

Discussion in 'Release 54 Feedback Forum' started by kaeshiva, May 31, 2018.

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  1. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Meow!
     
  2. Beaumaris

    Beaumaris Avatar

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    Is there a middle of the road approach to this Shroud conundrum?

    For example, what if the Shroud gave a minor short-term buff the same way a shrine buff works? (one that stayed with the character once the Shroud was no longer worn). Or what if it buffed something other than non-primary stats, something meaningful to the story like a players weakest virtue for white Shrouds, and a players strongest anti-virtue for black ones? Or what if it was the key to being able to use the Obsidian forge? Surely some good ideas could be found.

    Something like this would still give this item appeal as a very special item EARNED in game, while not making it something that had to be worn all the time.

    Otherwise it seems odd that the Shroud -- being THE ultimate namesake iconic item in game - would just do -- nothing, while a creepy bone crown earned steps before it gives a nice bonus. Unless of course the final test here is humility - to test ones willingness to wear a hard-earned bed sheet that does nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  3. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    I dont like the helm idea ethier, then everyone will have the same helm.

    Better just to make all cloaks masterwork able gem enchant what ever. Id even be happy with removing all the stat bonuses on the shroud.
     
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  4. Kaffien

    Kaffien Avatar

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    Could always allow patterns to be applied to it if you really don't like the look of it. That allows you to keep the stats but lose the horrible look no?

    I know it doesn't address the other issues. but it would address the issue of everyone looking the same.
     
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  5. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Nah, half will use the Crown and half will use the Shroud!

    I don't really care what they decide to do, as long as it increases the appearance options in the game.
     
  6. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    I think your best bet here is to make the "base" cloak functionality include the DR/resist/avoid values that the shroud does. That will bring us back up to where we were before the virtue additions and create an even playing field of 'all back items have the same base bonus'. Have this include everything - cloaks, wings, etc - so that a cosmetic choice is still a 'neutral' choice. This puts us back to square one.

    For the shroud itself, I liked the logic of the bonuses but as long as it has bonuses - of any kind - it is going to be the most popular option as you say.

    Potential solutions:
    • The option to add enchant/mw functionality to cloaks could mitigate this, as players could wear something more suitable to their build. The net potential gain would be likely similar to wearing another piece of jewelry. We have beautiful heraldry cloaks now that I'd really like to wear! If we're concerned about players piling on more stats, then make the pool of options for cloak bonuses different.
    • What if the shroud effect had nothing to do with combat? Just spitballing here - add a negative combat effect to discourage in-combat or all-the-time use (and to fulfill the need to make it have a penalty, if such need exists) but have it give some other effect, like learning boost (ie guidance) - would make it viable for training in and banging around town but not necessarily a "must wear always" thing.
    • There's a lot of different things you could do here - the idea being to make it feel like players have earned something useful by completing the quest without putting people who have not done so at a serious disadvantage. Maybe make it effect the daily oracle bonus - net positive virtue shroud - oracle gives you more money to reward you. Net negative virtue shroud - oracle gives you more xp. This can be a pointless bonus - up the 500 to 750 or whatever in both cases but you have to fiddle about with your back item first to enable the extra. Another neat idea to link it to virtues would be that if you are virtuous, the oracle watches out for you (give it a reveal hidden effect) and if you are not virtuous give it a stealth bonus. Wouldn't make a lick of difference for PvE but opens some interesting PvP functionality.
    • Leave the original stat-for-virtue bonuses on the shroud, but allow the ability to slot a gem in non-quest reward cloaks (like, as a clasp, right?) I'd take 10 attunement any day over the shroud bonuses. But it wouldn't be the best option for everyone.
     
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  7. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

    Lord Tachys al`Fahn Avatar

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    Happy he mentions it in his blog, but Chris is the Tech lord... meaning he controls the direction of tech in the game. Starr Long, who is directing everything, mentioned in either the telethon for R53 or the heraldry video (not sure which one) that this item was broken in terms of what it is giving, and that it would be FIXED in R54.

    Again, not missing anything. I don't care how superior this item is, with or without the screwed up attempt at balance on the stats, or how the stat bonuses and penalties don't make sense. It is you who are missing the point. OP cries Nerf, when it isn't a nerf, its a fix to bring it in line with the original concept of how this item was supposed to work.

    No arguments here. Tbh, with the plethora of items that affect stats and skills for EVERY OTHER SLOT introduced over the course of YEARS, it is a mystery to me why the cloak is the only item they REFUSE to give any bonuses.

    Glad you think it was elegant. I couldn't agree more. But this is the broken implementation... that was FIXED. And yes, they gave you items that have potentially game breaking abilities AND stats at the end of each story arc, and the only reason most would not use them is the potential virtue hit. All they have done in this is continue in that vein, but with a twist. For finishing the whole story, they gave you an item that DOES reward you, but also penalizes you. The bonuses they convey make a limited kind of sense, as do the penalties.

    I agree... there should be other items to wear that would rival this in terms of viability. A simple necklace can convey almost all the bonuses the other story items give you, and not take up slots that can give you more comprehensive benefits, while there is nothing that can give you anything near what the shroud does. And that needs to be fixed badly.

    I still wear the shroud, because the bonuses it gives me are nice enough, and the penalties are ridiculously small. I've taken the thing off this release, and don't even notice the change in speed. Nothing hits me harder magically speaking than they did before, or if they do, it is likewise unnoticeable because I tend to turn magic using npcs into pincushions first. So... keep crying nerf, I'll keep knowing its been made to WAI, and keep wearing it until I decide I don't want what it confers.
     
  8. Despothes2

    Despothes2 Avatar

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    Completing the main quest lines was useless before, then they made it a little worthwhile and people actually used the shrouds. Now we're on a full swing back to less than useless. Wonderful.
     
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  9. Steevodeevo

    Steevodeevo Avatar

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    What's interesting to me is that in offline mode, viewed as a conventional RPG, the Avatar earning the white shroud at the end of chapter one is a nice touch. No one else would have it as 'you' are The Avatar. Even wearing it after that for chapters 2 to 5 would be fine, it makes You the Avatar.

    SOTA however, with its online social play option, means we all follow the same story arc and we are all The Avatar and we all have the Shroud.

    The benefits of the Shroud have been cleverly engineered to make it unique to you, and the colour change from black to grey to white linked to virtue is also clever, but maybe it just needs a bit more tweaking to make it look unique to each player? Not easy, I'm sure in PVP all high strength Tanks don't want a red one and all Mags a Blue one. But something, just dyes and heraldry to customise it? It would still clearly be the Shroud, it looks unique in its shape.
     
  10. Tsumo2

    Tsumo2 Avatar

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    Maybe a pattern that makes it look like a boa constrictor.
     
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  11. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    It may not be an actual snake, brother

    [​IMG]

    but it's still a boa, and it's backed up by two 24-inch pythons!
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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  12. LordEnglish

    LordEnglish Avatar

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    @Chris @DarkStarr
    Here's a possible solution: Change the shroud bonus to "virtue-scaled effectiveness of devotional bonuses" between say -25% and +25% effectiveness. Each devotional is linked directly to the virtues, and by the time you finish the main quest, you probably know to pick them up as you need them. Devotional bonuses are a maxiumum of 2 at once, and most players pick them up anyway, so the shroud is only adding a moderate boost to existing bonuses.

    Currently this would only have a positive impact on virtuous players, but we've heard about "anti-virtue" devotionals coming in the future, which would balance it. Bad people get better boosts from the bad shrines, good people get better boosts from good shrines, but all bonuses remain available to all players, so no "you must be bad if you want bonus X" decisions.
     
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