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Feedback on Quest: The Last of the Order [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Release 54 Feedback Forum' started by Vyrin, Jun 4, 2018.

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  1. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    This will be the first of a series hopefully as I go through quests in detail. I find most quests have a long way to go to be engaging, and I don't see a lot of in-depth testing or feedback. Feel free to add comments on things I might have missed.

    The Last of the Order is a quest with four simple parts:
    1. Talk to Ariel Rosehaven
    2. Talk to Isabel Spalding
    3. Fetch Order of Truth armor/robes from Understorm Gold Mines
    4. Talk to Isabel Spalding

    Part 1: Talk to Ariel Rosehaven
    - The Order of Triuth is a key part of the lore of this quest, but very little is said about it by Ariel. I would expect some more background on what it is and why it had a unique uniform.
    - When Ariel responds to "mystery" she says that the robes have benefits for mages: "I see THAT got your interest! Not surprised, not surprised." Characters should never presume like this - it created a disconnect from what I was thinking because I mainly fight with archery. There could be a point at which she asks if you are interested in finding your own. Another disconnect: "Ah, if I was a bit younger I'd say you were fancying me! Oh, stop blushing, it was a joke." Things like this can be better handled as questions - "Did I make you blush? Don't worry, it was only a joke."
    - Technical point: are robes considered armor in this game? I've only heard "cloth armor" and the items themselves are called armor. In any event, the items when you collect them are not at all robes as they are broken into chest/leg pieces. However, the journal entry notes this but calls the chest piece the "Cloth Robe" which is not what the chest piece is called when you pick it up.
    - BUG When responding to "Aerie", Ariel says, "Aerie? It's a fine city to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there." Umm... aren't we standing in the middle of it?
    - When responding to "help", Ariel says, "I don't need any help, thank you. Though... I might be able to help you with a bit of a mystery!" Even though she responds to the keyowrd "mystery" what help does she give except to presume you want her robes and tell you to talk with someone else? She doesn't explain the "mystery" so she is not "helping me with a bit of mystery". Nor can you presume she is referencing what Isabel knows (why can't characters just tell you if they know already?) Isabel doesn't present her knowledge as any sort of mystery. Isabel clearly knows what happened. No mystery.
    - BUG When responding to "job" - "any more" should be "anymore" the adverb.
    - BUG Not part of quest but resident neaby barks something about "open air shopping" - should be "open-air".
    - BUG When you bring up "confounding others", Ariel says, "If you ask anyone else from the Order, they'll tell you that I was remarkably difficult to work with thanks to my habit of questioning every order that didn't make sense." She already told you she is the last one so she should not speak of it as a possibility. I am playing Ariel: this doesn't make sense! She should say something like, "The others in the order would have told you that..."
    - Ariel says of Isabel: "Plus, she has a nice sale on blue satin, perfect for a bedroll!" There is no blue satin for sale, nor does such an ingredient exist. Obviously, it is not used in crafting a bedroll either. Would be nice if this corresponded to actual things in-game.

    Part 2: Talk to Isabel Spalding
    - Biggest problem with what Isabel says relates to this comment: "Xorthin robbed the Spalding family blind, and I want you to return the favor." I assumed she meant rob him back. Nothing says anything about killing elves. (his elven "friends") The journal entry says...
    [​IMG]

    Nowhere in Isabel's dialogue is this "bloodthirstiness" apparent. Revenge yes, but not killing. Also, how is it that again a presumption is made that she was more bloodthirsty "than I expected." I had no expectation.
    - Immeditely in Isabel's opening lines she says, "Or perhaps you've come asking after the Order of Truth?" She just puts that question out to all her customers? I know there probably isn't a change depending on whether someone has visited Ariel, so if I had gone to Isabel first I would have felt like the game was just handing me something out of the blue. This statement should just be removed.
    - In response to "help" she says: "Please don't take offense but I would ask someone else that I know better if I needed something." She sure seems willing to let you "help" her achieve vengeance! Disconnect.
    - When talking about the Order hse says, "I'm sure they've got plenty of Order robes; ... Bring enough of it back to prove you've done the deed." First BUG - it needs to match robes so should be "them". Second, the elves in the mines only have one set of robes. Third, how am I supposed to know what "enough" is to collect so I know I can return and turn them in? Not clear that this means ONE complete set.
    - Considering that someone may not know where the Understorm Gold Mines are, and they are not obvious, why is this not a keyword with some directions? Otherwise are you really left to searching the whole map or finding a spoiler on the wiki?


    Part 3: Fetch Order of Truth armor/robes/whatever they are from Understorm Gold Mines
    - This is the most disappointing part of the quest. First, fast forward - in the locked area in the back of the mine is a letter stating that the elves should only defend themselves and not respond to human provocation. That is not how they behave. Second, this seems like the set-up for a "gotcha" moment. If you're going to drop this kind of twist it has no impact unless there's some choice involved. Could there not be an option to talk to the elves? Or do the mechanics still limit to talk or attack? If so, don't try to "catch" us with something like this.
    - The first elf I see attacks me and gives me all five pieces of armor/robe/whatever. No exploration involved. There are so many options. We could talk to the elves to get them to give us the robes, buy them, steal them without fighting, find different pieces scattered throughout the cave, help them as another leg of the quest - and hopefully all of these options available at the same time. Why oh why do you walk into the mine, have an elf throw themselves at you in direct opposition to what the letter says and then collect all five pieces?
    - The "Helpful Guide to Exploring p.3" is neither helpful nor a guide. It seems to be left intentionally at both entrances - but seems to have nothing to do with anything in the scene. I'm ok with random books. But the location of these does not make them seem random.

    Part 4: Talk to Isabel
    - When Isabel greets you again: "Or perhaps you've come asking after the Order of Truth?" The collective amnesia of all NPC's in Shroud strikes again - and even more reason to take this phrase out of the greeting.
    - When triggering quest completion, "Well, you've been busy, which means that our debt... it's not repaid, but it'll be enough for now." Technical point - debt for some reason doesn't sit well when the journal task talks about seeking vengenace - related but different concepts.
    - If she were smart and really wanted vengeance, she wouldn't care about you retrieving robes, just that you offed some elves. The turn-in should be elven heads or ears or some such to fit the tenor of the quest. Would be great if you could spare the elves, and so forego the staff. You'd get the robes anyway.
    - In the end, you learn nothing about the Order of Truth even though you can travel around in their garb now. I guess there's no one left to care, and Ariel doesn't seem to care much.

    Enough for now, overall quality of the quest is "needs substantial improvement".
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  2. GreyMouser Skye

    GreyMouser Skye Avatar

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    Methinks your analysis might have taken longer than the quest writing in the first place. I am glad you had the time to point this out so eloquently.
     
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  3. Sir_Hemlock

    Sir_Hemlock Avatar

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    Port should have cleaned this up before launch. No excuse. Its disgraceful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  4. ROFL The Uber

    ROFL The Uber Avatar

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    most of the game's quests and systems supporting them are rubbish. Stupid NPCs, poor writing, no choice/impact, broken systems all around. going into persistence so early was purely to appease the whales who already knew everything and wanted to amass wealth. the game is still barely ready... how long after "release"?
     
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  5. Floors

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    They should just hire you to rewrite the game quests. Excellent advice, btw.

    Look, not everyone is a good writer... but from the beginning, shroud's writing for the quests was pretty bad. Not all... but many of the core ones you end up doing.

    The general story of shroud is pretty cool and very Ultima inspired, so it'd be nice to see the writing improved all around on stuff... you know, a second pass....

    I know players today don't like to "read" but if what you're reading is cool and thought provoking, it would be better.
     
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  6. Dereck Visaard

    Dereck Visaard Avatar

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    Wow, that is really disappointing... Trying to fit too much into a launch, perhaps? Eek, seems very very rushed. Pace yourselves guys!
     
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