How to make SotA great (please read carefully before posting)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Corv, Jun 21, 2018.

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  1. DeadnGone

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    Yeah, you're really going to have to push all sorts of notifications, emails, adverts with incentives to answer surveys, whatever way you can get back in touch with everyone. Won't be easy. These forums are generally just the same peeps. Some just read and don't post. Quite a few don't even bother checking the forums that do play, so yeah... maybe get the word out multiple ways. Would also include active players logging in game that don't check forums either, give them some incentive to be bothered with it as a lot just don't want to be bothered by it.
     
  2. DeadnGone

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    Quoted for truth! While it is nice the OP asks for info from early players, people who no longer play, etc, this ^^ needs to be taken into consideration. So much raging on issues that people don't like instead of decent discussions. Couple that with anything positive or anything *slightly* positive said about the game and people can flame the hell out of you, especially other gaming boards. I even know one where the moderators are anti-SotA, so it can be tough dissecting true criticisms from those that just troll and bash. Good luck with it! :)
     
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  3. Merlota

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    Regarding RMT. While it exists it means that I will not participate in the economy in any way. I won't put out a vendor and I sure as hell will not buy anything.

    I've bought accounts in the distant past because to be honest day to day of EQ1 was a boring grind too. Paying a couple hundred to bypass days of tedium was worth it but I have moved beyond accepting tedium in entertainment. Game isn't fun it doesn't get played.

    The rest of the economy, I don't like dealing with salesmen and getting themk in game is a turn off. Are you a nice person or trying to get your rent from my pocket. As long as gold is freely traded for USD I won't trade in it.

    It is possible to have the rest of the game be so good that skipping the entire economy is okay. I doubt that is possible as long as gear is crafted only and crafting is so boring players scream when botting it is banned.
     
  4. Preachyr

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    This dismissal of any negative feedback and criticism of the game as simply a campaign of hate is exactly why the game is in the state it currently is.

    I'm one of the mods of the SotA reddit. I am extremely disappointed in the game and am vocal about it, and about why. This usually gets me moderated on these forums.
    Because of this, many people here automatically label me as anti-Sota and automatically dismiss the reddit sub and all discussions in it as invalid. that is a problem, because it limits discussion. People need to be open to hearing opposing views from their own, and not just an echo chamber of agreement. That goes both ways, for critics and cheerleaders alike.
     
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  5. Bigg

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    My Thoughts
    By: Bigg

    I’ll try to make this easy (horrible at expressing ideas)

    • Skill caps for multiplayer. No skill cap for offline.
    Offline is meant to depend solo on yourself.
    But online you’re meant to somewhat rely on others or it’s just a chat room.
    Be generous 1300 skill cap for combat/crafting combined. For trials you could cut it in half.

    • Remove Xp grinding and make it on use skill up. That scale with points put into a skill so at GM it could take up to 100 rends or shield slams to hit that final point.

    • Remove death decay since there is no xp and instead on pve death your devotion /food buffs are removed and a gravestone will be placed which if recovered will restore the buffs you had before death and a positive hit to courage virtue. Could add spice that others could claim your gravestone after X time and gain the buffs in addition to their buffs but for half the time but with a negative hit the Love virtue.

    • allow healing, buffing, resurrecting to everyone in outside of party conditions but not cross over between pve and pvp tagged. In order to create a better in game community you have to be able to help each other on the fly. People will remember you as the guy that saved his skin when he was about to die and this could spark a friendship. (Without out all the stupid click add to party/he has to accept.., time wastes!!)

    • pvp/pve tagging is a hard subject to conquer because of many reasons but I feel the only way to switch modes should be through the oracle. Make a conscious decision on how you plan to spend your gaming time. I have not tested this new 30 second pvp stun grouping idea but to me it seems like a horrible sent up for double team griefing. Similar to blue blocking.

    • stealing. This needs a hard look at. You should not be able to steal off characters sheet. Stealing should be skill level + strength vs victim intelligence and should be weight based on what is lifted out of inventory. Also a UI that lets you view victims inventory but still completely random inventory loot within weight limits as mentioned above. This could then be applied to pat downs and other interesting pvp outcomes.

    • condensing of player vendors at the entrance of the zone that you can do a search, find the thing your looking for, what vendors have them and the location tagged on the compass. This npc would be placed next to the town crier and banker. 100% need QoL while still manually running through town to the vendor.

    • Fishing based on time, season, bait,(more than just worms), and a UI that allowed you to set depth. A combination of these things would be the deciding factor of species, weight, rarity etc. adding in treasure maps, sunken chests. Possibly fishing up snapping turtles/monsters that could attack you. Maybe sometimes a chance to get pulled into the water just for another random action caused.

    • remove the third option . Party and solo online are literally the same thing to me. I can run around by myself in party mode why even have solo?

    I don’t expect a complete rewrite of the game or that any of my ideas will ever see the light of day but I hope it could spark something. A lot of my ideas come from Mortal Online which has some incredible concept.

    I don’t mind the game and play often but holy crap if it wasn’t for the awesome people in my guild I probably wouldn’t dream of coming back.

    -I get the horrible loot system with the way the game is designed at the moment.
    -I get the nightmares of sitting in a room full of monkeys for 8 hour shifts to advance your character.
    -I sort of get the hell that crafting is. But it’s enough to rip out your eyes. As someone just now getting their feet wet in the subject.

    - I love the puzzles and teamwork to get buffs like in the fall.
    - I love the overworld map. But despise the handful of load screens just get to a place.
    -The housing system is one of the best I ever had a chance to experience. Simple and logical. Games that let you put a beds on the ceiling kills the mood for me for some reason.

    TL;DR: better fishing, better leveling process, better player interaction, better stealing, better search function for player vendors, long wall of text!
     
  6. Stundorn

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    What i said a year ago.
    For MP you need dependencies within characters to have meaningfull groupplay and to have a chance of a pvp balance. You also need tree limitations for that. Nobody in the MP environment should be able to be everything and to craft everything. Sure not everybody has the time to grind all, but just one person can grew a monopoly.
    Dependencies within players is key for MP, otherwise MP is completely obsolete beside Danceparties and other socializing stuff.

    People who like endless grind can go offline , without destroying any purpose of MP
     
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  7. Daigoji Gai

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    Le sigh @Stundorn.
    See:
    While Golruul may not have, I have, as well as working in the gaming industry along with app and software development. This is quite a normal cycle of letting go resources once a cycle is completed and as they gear up for the next phase.
    There is no reason for concern and would only start worrying if Episode 2 crowdfunding campaign doesn't go well.
    With the resources they have now, they have more than enough to continue refining Episode 1 and other promised Episode 1 elements while planning and mapping out Phase 2.
    Keeping that in mind, remember the formula Darkstarr provided.

    We are now in the phase after the commercial launch with resources to keep tweaking and refining.
    They are also mapping out Episode 2, which they promised details about sometime this summer.
    Again, the only time for concern will be if the Crowdfunding for Episode 2 does not perform well; and even then there still chance of continuing if the player base continues to grow as polish is added to Episode 1.
     
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  8. Bubonic

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    Well... sort of. Yes, downsizing when a cycle is completed is normal. However, letting go of such a large percentage of your staff including your lead quest/story designer, lead animator, AND your art director? Not so much.
     
  9. DeadnGone

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    This is not a dismissal. It is as exactly what i wrote.
    I'm not disagreeing that you shouldn't take criticism... but criticism/constructive criticism, and trolling/flaming/bashing the game are different things.
    It's one thing to complain and list your complaints... it's entirely another thing to attack people who play SotA, enjoy SotA, or say anything nice about it.
    That is why I was saying you have to dissect the criticisms from the hate bashing on all these forums (not just here) about SotA.
    There are people bashing SotA for being a cult because there were blood reliquaries packages for the Blood Charity Drive. o_O
    Then there are those that just want to troll to troll and will counter every argument and attack anything said just to trash the game and annoy the players. That's what needs to be weeded out.
     
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  10. VessValyren

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    Hopefully I can add a different perspective as a new player.

    I had never heard of this game until a little over a month ago, a facebook ad popped up (these actually work? who knew, never clicked on one before) and I clicked it and was intrigued. The free trial was perfect for me to try it out. Went through the Solace Bridge Outskirts, combat felt meh at the time but I did like the zone itself and the questing was a new system for me at least though still a lot of bugs or tasks not finishing that should have or my journal not clearing. But once I unlocked the alternate attack mode and deck building I was hooked. Having auto attacks matter for the various weapons (minus staff/wands) was very fun, charging a longbow attack to do a lot of damage while weaving other skills felt fun to me. I do like the deck building aspect of it, its different and works for how I play at least. Bought the game shortly after and am currently doing fire/death (to level those resists) and can fit what I need into it. But I can see the combat system not being for everyone, however you can turn on basic auto attacks and have a locked decked with 10 abilities which would turn it more into how other MMO's play. I am not sure if there is a negative to this, perhaps less damage and thats the issue people have?

    I played heavily offline for most of my time till finally switching to online last week and glad I have.

    As a newer player here are the things I would like improved:

    1. Loot: I went to a Tier 5 Zone last night by myself, killed several creatures even ones that were orange colored in name and some of them only drop 19 gold, maybe some items I can sell or salvage, but the gold count always being quite low. Yet I can go to a Tier 1 outskirts zone (Blood River) and get double to triple that for a mob with 30 hp? I know these tier 5 can drop better supply bundles (why I was trying them out) but didn't get any nor any thing else worth being excited over.

    2: Crafting: I love crafting in games, this system while grindy and heavily RNG, is at least better than most standard MMO's where its input x y z, get predefined item. At least through enchanting, masterwork, and sockets I have some control/progress to making an item. However it feels too RNG based and still not very deep. I'd like skills you could perform to increase your chances perhaps or a mini-game to increase durability or the chance to get a desired enchant/masterwork.

    3. Repeatable content: There needs to be reasons to go grind X mobs at Y location other than I just want to farm xp or mats. Bounty quests to kill various creatures for extra gold or exp, Crafting quests to create x items for producer exp, gathering quests etc. There is a lot that can be done for this subject.

    4. Double Exp Quest Dilemma: So I started my online run halfway through the double exp. However now that it's ended I feel that I shouldn't do anymore quests until another double exp event occurs, to maximize my gains. Perhaps remove double exp from affecting quests? Or stop adding double exp? Its a nice buff, but it also makes you feel like you should only play/grind during it. I am torn on this subject, but currently feeling like doing my quests will just hurt me in the long run is limiting my options for stuff to do in game.

    5. Magic Resists: I love to min max, but I know a lot of people do not. I don't think Magic Resists should be tied to Attunement, this just forces everyone to grind all the magic schools for no other reason then to have a defense against them. If you still wanted people to invest in Magic to be protected from it, add it as a passive skill like Fire and Water have. You have to invest somewhat into the tree to unlock it, but its not a heavy grind then.

    Overall though I am enjoying the game and happy to have found it, the community has been great. Special thanks to Oakenhammer, Rada Torment, Mac, and Athanil who have helped me with so much already.
     
  11. Mykll

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    Things would have to change both in and out of game.

    For some of those that have been ran off, can't get past some of the game issues to get to the supposed meat of the game.

    Can't get past some of the community to get to the game.

    Can't get past the moderation to get to the community.

    And seeing how the moderation continues today as it has been...
     
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  12. Preachyr

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    Thats fair enough, and I can respect that position as well. It's just unfortunate that all too often that ANY criticism is labeled as trolling/flaming/bashing automatically. Even by devs, sadly. For example one dev in particular is known for calling people names on other game forums, as well as dismissing the entire steam community as trolls. That is the kind of unfortunate attitude that only creates barriers to discussion.
     
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  13. sake888

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    Well, then there's today's post from LB himself regarding the former crew:

    we are still ironing out details, but broadly, of course we have taken a hit, but we have taken many through the years, and as before, we will work through this one as well!

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/lord-british-where-are-you.130976/page-2

    That does not sound like the scenario in which you describe. Le sigh indeed.
     
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  14. Pounce

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    I think the problem is that many small things break immersion.
    Recipes, things weight more after refining (like, gain mass out of nowhere (Adding fuels like wax to wood does not increase weight, serious) and ammount of ressource used for things, like houses only a little over a hundred boards, small things though still in the 40s (bowstaffs with tier 3 woods anyone??)

    lots of small tings.

    Ranged has still problems that you sometimes have to stand inside the mob or get grey damage 0 (serious, there is talk about that archers are for dupressing fire on archer on walls BUT YOU CAN NOT DO DAMAGE TO THEM, you need to get ON the wall (so why not use melee anyways to get them)

    Just a very few things of many that annoy

    I do not mind the grind but it does not really get you somewhere, skill points in buffs only raising duration is complete and utter uninteresting as soon it is 15min or more, there is no point to level them.

    Combat deck, really not my thing, for ranged absolute not THE thing, in big fights with many enemies for an ranged fighter absolute friggin not the thing, you are busy finding out what target to give priority, pick them off quick while evading the very lively melee with AOE damage you should protect from ranged harrasment, and have cards popping up to build combos, give me a break.

    Wich leads to tacticts, there is very little of that. Very little in varity beside spamming dps and avoiding hate as long you are not the tank.

    Nerfs that make it next to impossible to offtank with kiting, something ranged players can do in most games and so become an asset to the group.

    Nerfs introduced because high end players can do stuff but limit "normal level" players abilities at the same time (but they where not the problem) so putting the big ace on things that need finetuming, not such an good thing imho.

    General things that one can not express in numbers:

    There is little sense of distance, of space, think about how well Bethesda manages to give the feel of distance and space on maps that do not really allow for it (Think Oblivion, skyrim) where the map all happens on is maybe 16 square kilometers but feels much much bigger
    Maps in Sota feel small, cramped and walled beside few exeptions, and even there the illusion is not really there, even on fsairly big maps, upper tears is one of the few where there is an sense of space BUT that is someway removed again by the small area that is actual map to use..

    Character building, strength and weaknesses, it is not there, only "how much did you grind to put into skills" but not exelling in one area, sacrificing another one, it all depends only on grind abilities, nothing else.

    Social, there is no reasn for people to go to places, the whole population is fragmented, no bustling harbour town because stuff happens there, npc can not remedy that, and there is no real reason to interact with other close, so most the time you nee people in the overmap run passt, or in an map, but no point in interacting beside an event or such, but no day to day resons, not in "normal" times.

    No real dungeon crawl beside hilt, and that is not a good thing we have to much fighting CP or other spawn and wave type things, but no fighting and moving deeper into an area things.

    I know some stuff i repeated from earlier posts, this is an list i added on after some more thinking.
    In general yes, Sota is an fine game, but it suffers from depth, there are no reasons to do much more than grind, the social engineering if i may call it that is not there, like reasons for people to visit places and interact on them, for day to day {(player run events or dev run events, great, but we need some daily lifes reasons too.)}

    More grouping reasons, more skill that improve the strength of an group ({{(or add effects to skills in specialisation trees that have synergy effects on existing skilltrees)

    I am fine with having a lot of skills nnd not an dumbed down systhem, but it is not THERE, the sensation of importance, need to develope tactits beside the hit list order for hostile npc cclasses and dps spammin.
     
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  15. Jaanelle DeJure

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    1. Devs should work on playing the game more. I think that every dev should spend 3-5 hours weekly playing the game *as a regular player* actually having thought about the kind of character they want to build, and then setting about to do that in the world. I think that would go a long way toward making this game more fun for everybody, and also help with certain PR issues. I believe it would also help to empower the devs to “discern the signal from the noise” when it come to feedback from the player base at large. Having devs play through the NUE was a great idea, now extend that and have devs play all the way through all of the quests, and into the endgame.

    2. Audit the combat code
    a. There should be zero “placeholder” code lurking in a post-Release product.
    b. The code should accurately expresses the game design- no jank, minimal bugs.
    c. Admittedly, it does sound like super boring work, but I think will dramatically increase the fun factor for players.

    3. Ensure every tooltip completely and accurately describes the intended function of a skill:

    a. Putting together thoughtful decks (esp for pvp) is stymied when you cannot accurately predict how a skill should function.
    b. A great deal of wasted energy and bad feelings between players ensues because we are left to speculate on how skills should work, therefore endlessly arguing about what is really a bug, what is really OP, what really needs to be balanced, etc. If at least the tooltips were reliably accurate, we could test against a known standard.
    c. There needs to be some way for new users to better discern how attunement, charging, and stacking affects magic skills. It is not clear to a new player how important attunement is, and when you look at the “in 20 levels” info on the tooltips, it appears at first glance that a lot of skills aren’t worth leveling at all. It is also not clear when charging/stacking does not affect a skills effectiveness.
    d. Some information about crit damage and chance need to be put in there too.
    e. While I think I understand why you don’t want to necessarily just “give players” everything, consider the cost that you pay for trying to keep it secret. Considering all the transparency around the rest of the project, why not just let the players plainly see what the skills are supposed to do? It doesn’t make sense to ask players to actively contribute to bug reports, and then withhold the very information which would allow them to be more effective with those reports.

    4. Make Bludgeon matter. And every other skill tree too. Including Production. If the team is to spend -any- effort in the upcoming months on new skills, then I would strongly recommend the top priority is to make every skill tree meaningful to play, which means that they can contribute something to the larger community… that the skills are in demand by those who do not have them.

    5. Fix loot. Crafted gear in the loot tables is a great move, keep going with that. But I am thinking something a little more systematic, like as you go and refactor all the zones making sure that some kind of half-ass-decent loot is unique to each tier, or even to each scene. It would also be nice if decent loot occasionally appeared in crates and barrels. Why not? It’s an easy way to make the game more fun for everyone. Don’t be stingy with the loot. Oh, and please make supply bundles worth opening.

    6. UI. It sounds like the team already has a good bead on the problems with this. If you have any extra resources available to direct to HR, perhaps consider recruiting a top-notch UI designer to rework the entire UI, and make it sparkle using modern design principles. I feel you would get the most “bang for your buck” shelling extra out for a highly experienced developer here.

    7. Bug reporting system needs revamp. There needs to be more thoughtful design put into this, beyond just making a bug forum, having a couple people sifting through it, and adding ten thousand jiras to a never ending list. Some bug reports get lost or forgotten about necessitating re-reporting in future releases and causing frustration when people feel like they are being ignored. Other things are well-known, but somehow seem to slip by getting fixed for months, in some cases years, while other less critical bugs get fixed.

    8. Please do something about the forum. Seriously- it is like Batlin has taken over. And if one or more of your moderators doesn’t get that reference… perhaps they shouldn’t be moderating a Lord British game.I am not joking when I say posting in the forum feels to me like visiting a Fellowship Branch. If you don’t know what I am talking about, please PM me.

    9. Finish uncloning scenes and putting in maps ASAP. These are major indicators that the game is “unfinished” resulting in poor user experience. Would be acceptable in a pre-Release state, now needs top priority.

    10. Either permanently fix sparklies, or pull them out completely. This mechanism was intended to improve NUE, but is just another source of frustration and confusion for players. I have so many sparklies that do not properly clear- don’t have the time or inclination to report them all.

    Also, some Journal entries still aren’t clearing properly, even after talking to the Oracle and Town Criers, etc. Some of them have persisted for as long as I’ve been playing… for example I still have Arabella telling me to see the Oracle, or really old Resolute quest entries.

    11. Meta fix. In the future, when you tell us that something is fixed, please ensure that it has, in fact, been fixed before making the announcement. Unnecessary contributor to player frustration when we keep hearing about “fixes” that apparently were never confirmed to be working properly.

    12. Control Points. My understanding was that these were supposed to be an integral part of gameplay, and a kind of regulator of the regional economic system. Feels like a development stub waiting for… something to actually incentivize players to use them for something other than farming XP in Superstition. Why are we adding new group content, when Control Points haven’t been built out yet?

    13. Story. After my recent re-pass through the story, it is clear that much has been done to add more depth since this time last year. However, it still doesn’t engage or grab me. Can’t quite put my finger on it… maybe has to do with the UI. I don’t feel like I am *in* a story… I don’t care about these characters that I encounter. And I don’t feel like becoming “one of a million” Avatars is really “writing my character into the story” in any meaningful way. A couple times after the second pass it grabbed me a little bit... with I could give you clearer feedback here but something is still not coming together with the story.

    14. Consider some way for players to make permanent changes to the world based on the choices we collectively make. Situations where we have to decide things that can’t be undone as the game moves forward. Having gear stats change according to our choices is a good start, but doesn’t really get at the goal of our choices having “meaningful impact” in the world around us.
     
  16. Daigoji Gai

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    He added nuance during the livestream - it would have been nice to retain them, so indeed, le sigh, but this isn't abnormal so the sky isn't falling yet.
    If Episode 2 planning and crowdfunding doesn't go well, then become concerned. Save your energy.
     
  17. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    @Corv, ok, so I am triple dipping and never invite me to a party with dip. :)

    Community. That is what has made this game great for me. Anything that can be done to foster community will definitely benefit the game.

    People out there want to belong to a community. Just spend some time on /r/mmorpg (that's the Reddit page for MMORPG's, for those that don't know). You'll quickly see that people want something. A lot want different things. But there is a whole group of us out there that play games for the community. Some even play games that are sub-par to be with their communities (I'm not being passive-aggressive toward SotA).

    I think that can fall a lot upon the current player-base that want to see this game grow. But it also helps if Portalarium does/makes things to foster that.

    I'll quit chiming in. ;)
     
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  18. sake888

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    What energy am I suppose to save? I'm just furnishing truth on a given subject on this board. We can all save the "energy" of pressing keys to construct posts I suppose, but since this board, quite like the game, is starving for activity, I thought I'd break my hiatus for a bit.

    Your criteria for when to be concerned would seem to differ greatly from mine. The game's population is abysmal today, was yesterday and has been many days prior.
     
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  19. Ashlynn [Pax]

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    It's a bit late in the day for this topic. Many issues are systemic and were baked in long ago so I won't go into them.

    But a few important things they could maybe still address and I think are important:

    1) The game runs terribly - it always did - but after they upped the system requirements at launch, it sort of confirmed to me they had no plans to optimize the game. The minimum specifications on steam aren't exactly mid-range and the recommended are laughable - GeForce 1070 which only 4% of steam users use? But I suppose if you can afford a thousand dollar house, you can afford expensive hardware too, right?
    2) Loading screens. If you're going to instance the game, it should be less painful.
    3) Polish and refine basic combat and movement around the world. I tried Neverwinter and have a lot of issues with it, but it felt very polished. Can you even climb a ladder yet in SotA?

    As for the other stuff, I'd say get rid of the RMT but it's too late at this point to matter for the ingame economy or the wider reputation the game has. Some art direction would be nice, but just about everything has already been shoved in the game already without concern for that. Get rid of decay because no one likes it. Maybe less confused design on certain features would be an idea - ie: have a skill use base system without levels and xp, or levels and xp without a skill use based system - don't try to do both badly and confuse new players. Or have global banking with a global item limit, not local banking with a global item limit. Also the current item limit is BS anyway.

    I could go on but I don't want to make it too long because I could really go on.
     
  20. Daigoji Gai

    Daigoji Gai Avatar

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    @sake888 Then add me in-game and join me on an adventure. Gauntlet throw down because I am, slowly, seeing new individuals and new players daily and can use a hand showing them a grand time.
    Trust me, better investment than moping on false-positive anecdotal evidence about abysmal populations.
    [​IMG]
    Hugs. Keep hope alive. Sky isn't falling yet.
     
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