on getting criticism

As some say: "Some people are just filled with hate, provide useless feedback, and are on a campaign to destory SotA."

• On factual level: The player believes that people's complaints are just based in hate, useless. and they are organized to try to destroy the game.
  Possible answer: That's not quite correct. 1,000 criticisms don't automatically dd up to hate or a campaign to destroy. All criticism provides some insight into player experience. Please, don't exaggerate.

• On an appeal-level: The player says they wish there was less criticism.
  Possible answer: Track criticism over time as fixes go in and things improve. See what happens.

• On self-disclosure level: The player describes they are tired of people attacking something they want to love. (player just disclosing their feelings).
  Possible answer: We are sorry to hear you are upset. SotA is working hard on bug fixes and improvements to remove the criticisms and make those who love the game do so even more.

• On relationship-level: The player is trying to undermine criticism and put those who provide it in a bad light with an unnecessarily rude tone and manner. (Using feces as a metaphor for examples).
  Possible answer: As you may have seen, the people who post criticism are focusing on their valid experience and do understand what they are saying. They believe they are spending their precious time to post criticism to hopefully ADD something to the game. Sorry you don't feel the same way.

It works!

 

I've seen a lot of people lately who seem to just be digging up whatever controversial things they can, just to stir the pot.

 

It depends on the moderator, timing, context, history, and perhapst other details
It doesn't mean moderators never make mistakes, but in case of a misunderstanding or disagreement it can/should be sorted out case-by-case and in person.
I don't think negativity is actually negative, unless it's just destructive/bashing.

 

Forum trolls is what they are called

 

Recently posted this
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...estions-complaints.134401/page-2#post-1094811

Btw. Not everybody knows if things have been said 1000 times already or are known and i did bug reports about old quest sparkles for example and other stuff, separated each in threads.

Edit: i played a lot compared to other games i play and i allways gave feedback and i still recommend the game to some degree. My Steam Review is positive and long and describes exactly what to expect and how you imo should approach the Game.
About a year ago some people begun to feel attacked by my "feedback" , i also get banned in a german PoT and i'm not welcomed in another Germanspeaking PoT. When game was released a YT'er who doesnt know me spread the word i'm the most hated germanspeaking person, what is not true, i still have germanspeaking players friended.
But my reputation is lost.
I'm more and more recognized and named as a troll, because i criticise the game for specific things.
What is always lost and misunderstood is.
There is also stuff i really like and that my criticism is to give people who have the same or a similar opinion a voice .
I know players that left what would instantly come back if my made suggestions above would be implemented.

 

Personal opinion, @Cerus.

Engaging directly is a mistake... No matter what you say, no matter how you say it, your words are going to be taken and twisted into something wrong and sinister. You can't win this... You are Wrong from the outset... There will be something you say that will 'prove' the pre-conceived notion was correct and that you're Wrong.

 

I do not intend to win anything
I find the article interesting and want to share my thoughts. No intent to educate anyone.
If someone disagrees, that's ok. If someone wants to twist my words, so be it (not sure what the point would be, though).

Anyway, if anyone else wants to share similar articles showing different perspectives of handling criticism, would be great to read.

 

No Trolls around , all Trolls are already gone and moderated / deleted.

What's still around is criticism and Portalarium should be thankfull for criticers who give feedback and share their pov and opinion on things to improve the game they would like more.

There's one fact what is important.
We dont know how well SotA is running regarding player numbers because of FMO and SPO.
And a lot of players feel it's not going well for SotA. And that is something i dont want.
So i see myself as someone who criticise a lot pointing on things i know not only me is annoyed from or wanted to be changed, but a good amount of players who have already been gone.
And the fact that Portalarium does not come up with numbers and seeing the Ep2 funding stuck doesnt make it better.

 

I hope we can all see the paradox in that statement. In other words, certain people will always see you as wrong and that's why they are always wrong. Sheesh.

We all have hardened opinions (obviously), the key is to choose our battles. If you can't wade into the discussion with someone's opinions, don't. Don't consign them to the fiery flames of damnation, just admit that I'm not the right person to address that (and that's ok!). Others will be. If we keep the focus on what I can handle or not handle it prevents us from seeing THEM as the problem. Assigning the problem to THEM is always a sure road to more problems.

 

Very well said!

 

I guess thats not the way to do it

 

You didnt understand the point Koster was making. They are the professionals and they shouldnt take it personal. The reaction was created due to their work. So he takes the responsibility for the rant/rage etc. Anyhow this word of advice comes way too late. Damage has been done and with reduced staff etc I hardly think turning the ship around is possible. Good luck though

 

I think that all this criticism can be counter-productive.

I am sure the Devs are working as hard as they can to fulfill the goals.
Do you think the Devs are setting out to make Shroud a failure?
Sometimes, the gremlins make progress difficult.

It is, what is...
It will be, what it can be...

We are all Adults here...
No amount of criticism or bemoaning can change what they are capable of delivering.
The Devs are human beings who are peddling as hard & as fast as they can....

*gets off soapbox & slinks away to a darkened corner*

 

This was my takeaway as well. It was a very interesting read and I enjoyed his insight and perspective. In my personal life I have always accepted the responsibility of my mistakes, apologized when necessary and improved upon the criticism and feedback given. How else can we learn from our mistakes? Granted some criticism can just be BS, but when it is consistent, echoed by multiple people independently of one another, it warrants reflection and consideration. Just my thoughts anyway.

P.S. Are you related to my buddy Jpopboi?

 

All this thread is accomplishing for me is to make evident just how difficult it can be to communicate to each other to get your point across safely without any drama.

Sheesh!

 

I agree with the article re: criticism for the most part.
The problem is when people try to compare apples to oranges or simply do not have sufficient knowledge of what they are talking about (factual issues) making broad claims. Shroud gets a lot of criticism on other websites from people who have never played, have not played in well over a year, or who played insufficiently to grasp a full understanding of the game's mechanics/depth. Sometimes, there is legitimate criticism - and if a big part of your core playerbase says that X feature is bad, it may be worth considering a revamp.

I trust that the devs "consider the source" when dealing with these things - just as if I read any game review (say, on steam) from someone who downloaded it, played a couple hours, then came to the forum to declare it 'crap' - my brain just automatically filters that stuff. We have seen a LOT of improvements to the game over the past several years as direct results of criticism. It is serving its purpose. Its just knowing which criticism to listen to, and which people are just flinging poo. That's the trick.

 

I have to agree that not everyone who dislikes your work is right.

I really dig SotA and I do my fair share of defending, but... I also critique some decisions here and there and yeah, there are elements of the game that do rub me wrong, maybe I could talk a bit more about those, but that doesn't mean my critiques are going to line up with the bulk of the complaints either.

I do see some who are just negative about everything, all of the time, regardless of what is done.

 

It's like debating politics or religion; everybody just gets mad and nothing changes. Honestly, I don't even know why I looked at this thread.

 

So I have been really reflecting on the whole aspect of "criticism" as it exists in game development and feedback from the players. After reading the Koster article I found this amazing article about Final Fantasy XIV. It discusses what Naoki Yoshida did when he was given the task of turning the ship around and saving what was at the time a tremendous failure. I played FF XIV and although very cookie cutter, it told a great story and was a lot of fun with tremendous character customization. At any rate, the whole article is worth a read, but this part really jumped out at me:

"For Yoshida, listening to feedback from both designers and players has been key. Where many of Square-Enix's other high profile directors have, in recent times, forged their own creative path with long-running series, often to the dismay of fans, Yoshida became obsessed with what players wanted. He visited the game's online forums every day and ordered one staff member to prepare a weekly report that listed each player request on the forums and allocated it a priority rating for implementation. "Regardless of what game designers say, it is always great to receive feedback on your games," he tells me. "Of course I appreciate people who just say how much fun the game is but I feel the same about criticisms too. If we stop getting feedback it pretty much means that people have stopped playing the game, so good or bad, I am always glad to hear a response."

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-18-naoki-yoshida-final-fantasys-world-saviour

 

Yeah this is just childish bashing, not the way to do it at all.
I love the video though, pretty awesome done by the Shroud team