NPCs running back to spawn... or wherever

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fauxpas, Jul 15, 2018.

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  1. Fauxpas

    Fauxpas Avatar

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    ok i get it (i think) ... you dont want us to be able to exploit cliffs and other for the mob nonreachable spots, having us to face them. i dont like it and dont see why this should be in place, but i can live with it.

    but whats up with them running off mid fight, not beeing able to hit them while they flee?!?

    this happend to me alot in the past few days ... even if i kite the mob around its spawn, suddenly it runs off, doesnt take hits while doing so and restores health rapidly meanwhile. in some cases runs into another group of mobs, having a fire dot on, or followed by a summon/pet, pulling a whole group.
    even if it had a coherent fleemechanic (which i doubt), it makes no sense theyre invincible while fleeing. and the speedboost is just redicilous.

    what is up with that?

    its just frustrating to the point of gamebreaking, if simple mechanics like kiting, blocking, los, .. from time to time just break for no apparent reason.

    please fix the and focus on fundamentals, making it possible for us to recommend this game. i dont see me saying to a friend "try sota man. its quest system and ai is broken, but if you buy now we all get a new hat or dance emote! yay"...
     
  2. DeadnGone

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    At first glance, most games since EverQuest have had leashing mechanics otherwise they'd chase you around forever (and probably add more to the horde following you) and people would exploit that as well by training them onto other players. In a private zone or single player, I suppose you could ask for an option to toggle that off if it's feasible.

    As far as why they are invulnerable... that would be an exploit mechanic, all I would need to do is attack and pull back to "x" number of paces away and get free backshots (extra damage to boot) on the enemy while they did nothing but walk/run away. People would definitely take advantage of it. Now if there was a fear mechanic involved... I could see using it to get the free back attacks as mobs moved away from you.
     
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  3. SmokerKGB

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    I would like this for SPO, but in the case of "Archers" who run, I position myself between the spawn and the archer, when they run, they run away from me (and away from the spawn), but if I'm too far out, yes they leash back... If they're just running, then my Hally can hit them, and many times kill them from behind, so I chase with no problem...

    I think their agro is based on the difference of your chr level v theirs, similar to WoW and going into the next area when not leveled, it seems like every mob runs from all of the scene to kill the new guy... WoW forces you to stay in the lower scene, where SotA allows you to over extend yourself...
     
  4. Fauxpas

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    i appreciate your post and youre kind of right.... kind of imo.

    UO had no leash mechanic as far as i remember and it was perfectly fine in my book, to abuse and exploit AI. the bonewall in deceit, or explo hide come to mind regarding UO. or blocking via chests or whatnot.

    im not even asking for that (even if i would like to have it in place)... but a mob running off, healing up and beeing invincible seems to be a really bad and lackluster solution to me.

    theres so many instances where its claimed that this is not your standard mmo... but in that instance its justified by how EQ done it? why not have giant rats like daoc then? or "kill x of y" quests like lotro or wow?
     
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  5. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    It's called Tethering, and is used to keep people from Kiting Mobs indefinitely.
     
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  6. matsutaki

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    there are still several exploits that an archer can use, some have gotten fixed some havent
     
  7. Anpu

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    I keep noticing this happen more often than usual. And I am melee...
     
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  8. Razimus

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    Exploits schmexploits, UO did it best, you could drag a troll from the southern most point of the universe to town and have it kill that botter who spammed in town all day, justice was served
     
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  9. DeadnGone

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    Hah, you could, at least early on, "GATE" in a horde of mobs to a town or area outside town as well... as they'd keep following you through the gate. :D
     
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  10. Fauxpas

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    thats what really puts me off. i can see why it makes sense to have them quit following, if you drag them too far (eventhough i am with Razimus that i loved that about UO). but as i mentioned "when i kite the mob around ITS spawn", i ment literally around its spawn like in a radius of 5-8m.

    its just frustrating, if youre gnawing on that orange trained wolf or lich fighter (im a mage so im fragile ;)) for a few minutes and suddenly it quits following, becomes invincible (i mean not even DoTs!) and heals up rapidly.

    and for exploiting mob behaviour... we do that by adjusting our decks for the encounter aswell. we exploit and grief them all day long and i see absolutely nothing wrong in that ;).

    its that artificial block, that comes out of nowhere and in alot of instances for no apparent reason. in the end its a very shabby solution, like an alpha wall in an exploration game. and on top of that its not even working correctly alot of times.
    considering how big of a topic combat vs mobs is in this game (you can go nowhere, where there are no mobs, except towns without resource nodes), i see this as almost gamebreaking.
     
  11. Feeyo

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    Same here. I hate it when I knock them down with a stun, and they just start sliding over the floor in fast forward back to their spawn point, to come in fast forward mode rushing to me again.
    The first few times it funny to see, but starts getting annoying.
     
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  12. 2112Starman

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    Like others have said, this is MMO 101 and been in every game I have ever played in the same way SOTA has it.
     
  13. kaeshiva

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    I find that any time you step onto a platform, surface, or elevation and the mob can't "reach you" you start getting "0" damage spam from your hits and the mob sometimes runs off to go back to whence it came.
    I don't really have a problem with that, and understand the reasons for it. No shooting fish in a barrel.

    However, the problem is that a blade of grass or a pebble the size of a small marble seems to be enough to trigger the behavior. I think this threshold needs to be adjusted a wee bit. I mean, sure, climbing on top of a big rock and hurling fireballs at helpless spiders shouldn't be allowed - I think few would argue this. But like, stepping over terrain that your character can walk over (no jumping) should not trigger this. It maybe that these are just glitchy spots but this mob behavior is very recent and much more frequently occurring. Its the same issue with "cover" - mobs seem to get "cover"from my attacks if there's any sort of potential obstacle anywhere remotely near where I'm fighting regardless of how silly that obstacle is. Like, hiding behind a garlic plant.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Fauxpas

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    lol what??

    UO, WoW, Tera definitely did NOT. and im pretty sure Shaya, ArchAge, DAoC, Rappelz, Vindictus had neither. these are the mmos i remember having played.

    im not sure where youre coming from with that statement, especially if you read what i wrote, what the gamebreaker here for me is...
     
  15. 2112Starman

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    yup any MMO after the first early ones, yes they all did. sorry.

    You are saying in MMO's that if you ran away from them they would follow you endlessly?

    I dont seem to remember mobs chasing me all the way across maps in Wow, do you?
     
  16. Deana Beretta

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    While I'll agree that mob leashing is a standard MMO mechanic that's been around for a long time, I also think the leashing in this game is pretty weird. The most common type of leashing I've seen is:
    • An enemy will chase you this far from the point where they aggro'd onto you (the point where they flagged from non-combat into combat).
    • If the enemy travels further than that distance (or needs to travel further than that distance in order to attack you), they "reset" and return to the location they were at prior to combat.
    • This includes if the player becomes unreachable (by jumping up on objects or something similar) as the distance the NPC would have to travel to reach you essentially becomes infinite (reset).
    Once an enemy has reset, you would have to re-engage the enemy in combat.

    I've seen all sorts of odd behavior from the enemies in this game. Yes, I would say that these behaviors fall under the category of leashing, but they are way outside of the "usual" behavior I've listed above. Here's a couple examples.
    • The troll in The Rise. He's a stationary enemy (he doesn't patrol around like the elves do). He sits at an intersection of two long bridges, over a deep chasm. He has a confusion attack, and as a result, my group prefers not to fight the troll on the bridge. My group prefers to pull the troll across one of the bridges, back to the hallway leading into the room with the chasm. This way, we are far less likely to stumble off a bridge when our "strafe left" key is swapped with "backpedal". If the hallway where we fight were beyond the troll's leash distance. I would expect him to snap back to his leash point as soon as he crossed his threshold. But he does not. Even if you factor in the troll's ranged and charge attacks, it does not behave as expected. If the troll would walk as far as his leash allowed him, and then pelted us with rocks, I would understand this. Or, if the troll walked to a point where he could charge at us, charged, and then realized he was beyond his leash point (and reset), I would understand this as well. But neither of these things happen. The troll happily engages us in the hallway for anywhere from 10 to 30 seconds, and then leashes back to his spawn point for some quick healing. We then don't need to re-engage the troll, as he runs at us again (with the same speed boost he gets when resetting to his spawn point), and engages us in the hallway again for another 10-30 seconds. I would call this odd behavior.
    • The mage room in The Rise. When I kill the mages in the mage room (solo), I prefer to pull the mages into the little side passages. This way I only have to engage them 1 or 2 at a time. I've seen all sorts of weird behaviors from these mages. Here's a couple.
      • Extremely long leashes: I've seen mages from bridges above the room run extremely long distances in order to engage me. They run the entire length of the bridge, through a side corridor, down a flight of stairs, through another side corridor, and then across the entire length of the mage room, just to attack me. In cases where I found myself overwhelmed (because a mage teleports away and somehow convinces other nearby mages to join him), sometimes the mages will give up as soon as they have left the mage room. Sometimes they will chase half-way down the large stairwell. Sometimes they will follow me all the way down the stairwell, and half-way to the verdantis mines exit.
      • Sometimes when I am trying to pull a mage into one of the side passages, they will simply ignore the fact that I have aggro'd them. Meaning, I will hit them with a ranged attack (usually stone arrow as I tend to use melee). Typically, they will respond with a ranged attack of their own as I am retreating to a corridor, but sometimes they instead choose to heal themselves on the spot, or possibly cast a buff on themselves. When this happens, they tend to not follow me to the corridor. As the leash length appear to vary widely for these mages, I cannot tell if this is an instance of the mobs leashing, or just forgetting that I hit them in the face.
      • Sometimes the mages... lose interest mid chase. But rather than resetting as if they had been leashed, they just... stop and stand still. This happens most often on the last few mages (I clear in a clockwise circle, starting at the long stairwell from verdantis mines). I am trying to pull these mages to one of the side passages opposite of their spawn location (the passage with the stairwell that leads to the upper bridges). Usually they chase me into the passage with no issue. But, sometimes, they reach the stairs within the mage room (the stairwell that leads to the next room with all the archers), and they just... stop. They don't reset back to the table they spawn near. I can run back out of the corridor, and re-engage the mage, and they will continue to chase me into the corridor, but the stopping is weird.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
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  17. Fauxpas

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    no, well except UO, where they actually did.

    im saying that none of those games i mentioned did it "in the same way SOTA has it", and i even forgot neverwinter and Lotro. Most of those have indeed leash mechanics, but not at all "in the same way SOTA has it".

    if you read my posts again, im not asking for it beeing removed completely, im asking for it beeing fixed. in none in the above mentioned games, ive ever had the problem of mobs escaping without me intentionally running too far to get rid of them. thats perfectly fine. but just running off midfight without ever beeing dragged too far, is broken and in no way shape or form resembles how the games above did it.

    [edit] having mobs behave in ways that are not at all predictable or coherent, doesnt add interest. it then is all about chance like in a slotgame, with the players experience, skill and playstyle taken out of the equation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
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