Group Tactics

So, with LFG, I've actually been grouping a bit. Except I've never played an MMO/online game of any kind before. Upper Tears is nice, because the tactics are pretty straightforward. But I've also tried a few other things (Ruined Keep, dragon and unicorn hunting) and I've found I die pretty quickly. Sometimes it's because maybe I'm in a little over my head (Ruined Keep, Unicorns) but sometimes, it's because I don't really know what I'm doing, other than basically acting more or less the same way I do when solo, but with other people around.

So, if anybody cares to share, what are some general and specific group tactics? I know a little of the terminology (but only a little) but I only have a bare understanding of things. I just found out healers draw aggro, it never would have occurred to me that was a thing.

As for specifics, I'm a lvl 93 light armor/archer (GM or higher in all the ranged skills except the arrow recovery one, specialization at 80) with pretty good death magic (80s or higher, spec at around 65, attunement gear). I die a lot in groups. I seem to draw aggro pretty easily, which is part of it, I think. I've heard it mentioned that maybe I should back off on the attacks a bit, to keep aggro on the tank(s); I've also heard that if the tanks can't keep aggro it's because they're not doing their job. (No opinion either way on mypart, just things I've been told.)

 

Hello, @Cora Cuz'avich
So a few ideas, a lot of holes in my knowledge FYI. So everything starts and ends with I may be mistaken from here on out.
1.) I think i remember hearing @Chris talking about rapid fire or quick successive hits being part of the problem.
2.) I also think he said something about over using abilities, so you're right on target with slowing down a bit
3.) The tank may be at fault or
4.) Waiting to attack to allow them to gain a sizeable agro lead, may help.
5.) The Artifact Ring of the Mouse reduces your agro generation and I think their is a belt or ring for tanks that does the opposite.

I MAY BE MISTAKEN

 

In SOTA the mechanics are still being worked on in my opinion but they have come a long way. I'll apply this to SOTA since Im usually the tank in Tears (honestly because it seems most people are to lazy to come of the hill or are just mostly afk).

I always wear chain (heavy armor). I have switched between archery, polearm, bludge and swords and have GM's in all the attacks I used and some of the passives.

So in my test I had a 1H bludge (for stun) and a shield. I fired up a troll belt (33% agro) and taunt.

So I step up to the point where my earth arrow can hit the rear target (to ensure that they all pull at once) and all the tears mobs come at me, I spam banish twice and hit most of them as we enter the DPS zone. The DPS zone is where people have dropped AOE like Meteor and ring of fire. So I step back to the rear edge of the aoe so all the mobs enter in. I then pop some defense buffs. By this time DPS is hitting it, people with bows, people casting distance spells (and maybe some other melee). At that point mobs start peeling off me to people who are steeling argo due to their higher DPS. So I start spamming taunt on them with tab targeting and capture their agro back on me to keep them in AOE. If someone happens to pop a huge crit or heal at any time in the middle of this, the mob (or mobs) immediately go chasing after them and this happens. The eky is to try to keep good medium sustained DPS to not pull agro. The healers in the group then only need to target that tank which makes healing easy for them.

If you have a well functioning group, you can drop the mobs within seconds and repeat in seconds. A good group can atten Tears like this in say ~20 minutes.

This mechanic is coming along nicely in SOTA but still needs a little work.

Here is EXACTLY what it looks like in one of my streams:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/284612338

 

Tears isn't the problem, that's relatively straightforward. I've only died maybe twice at most there.

I forgot about the mouse ring; I think I may still have one that I didn't salvage for essence.

 

You could try and hop in with us "Guardiens du Lys" and we could give you a good idea of what is going wrong. With my attemps at playing an archer, the main things would be, like others said, slow down on attacks. Dont spam abilities, take your time and get some 4-6 stacks off. By doing that you should maintain a DPS that should be equal or even higher than before, but with less attacks, resulting in less aggro being pulled. Also, if you still seem to get too much aggro, the ring of the mouse and the light armor skill that reduces aggro should help. You could also ask the tanks in your group to add "Taunt" to their decks. I've added that to my Tank deck, and usually keep the aggro all the time (few exceptions of course).

I feel like multiple hits generate more aggro much like getting tapped on the shoulder multiple times gets annoying, so that could be your main issue.

 

This is an awesome, and very helpful post! Bravo. I think it actually answers several questions.

*edit* I agree with others that have said try to avoid "Rapid Fire" skill.

 

If I recall right, Chris said recently that rapid fire is an issue and needs to be fixed. Something about the ~7 arrows hitting in rapid succession and the code mathematically calculates each one independently which causes insane agro.

 

I appreciate the responses!

The info is certainly helpful for my own role, but what about general group tactics? Keep in mind, as far as online play goes, I'm a complete noob.

 

General group tactics will usually depend on the enemy/zone/situation. For us, order of priority = Mage>Archer>Melee>Boss

Simply put, eliminate highest DPS with minimal effort (thus bosses being last).

Now usually we will have, Like Starlord said, people lay down their AoEs while the tank goes in to get aggro. The tank will then bring the mobs in the AoE fields while taunting, and then the rest of the group cam come in for DPS. A healer dedicated to the tank is necessary in case of very unlucky Defensive procs on the tank.

On bosses, the tank will go in alone for a couple of seconds to get aggro, while the healer watches his health bar. If there is smaller mobs, the DPSs will try to dospatch those ASAP, folloeing the order mentioned above, and once they are done, will come in aid to the tank and healer who should still be on the boss.

Generally, whem fighting a boss, the tank will want to dance around the boss to end up facing the healer, so that the rest of the team can attack the boss from behind, while staying in range of the healer for emergency heals (aoe, accidental aggro loss, etc) versus mobs, this isnt a priority, but can be a good thing!

This is pretty much our take on things, can't speak for everyone, but Starlord had a great description of the tanks role, just a small addition for group tactics!

 

I am quite big on the support skills for groups. Healing through damage is certainly viable, but I find it better utilized when you're fighting 1 or 2 mobs. When you're fighting against groups of enemies or particular bosses, tactics are very important.

Fireflies is good for "marking" the target you want the group to focus on, and debuffs as well. Ranged characters who have a better lay of the land can use it to mark targets for the group.

Crowd control comes in quite handy in group situations:

• Ice Field can make your ranged DPS pulling aggro more manageable (many archers--no offense--in particular are used to fighting solo, and don't adjust their playstyle for groups), and keeps groups of ranged mobs more clustered for DPS who can hit more than one mob at a time
  
• Moon Beams can be helpful to keep hard hitting mobs that are far from the main group locked for a bit until they can be put down
  
• Root is invaluable against enemy archers and mages or to keep mobs away from your ranged DPS
• Animal Charm has its uses as well to reset aggro for a short time, though honestly it comes more in handy when you're resource gathering and is much more situational
• Dazzling Rays is a good spell if you're a healer or ranged DPS who finds themselves suddenly under attack and need to escape quickly, though if those mobs are being whacked by another party member it's not going to work
  
• Anyone that can Stun (Air magic, Bludgeon skills, Earthquake) should be using these skills as often as possible--the more stunned your mobs are, the less likely they are to cause trouble
• Abilities that can interrupt spell casting (Gust, stuns and mesmerize) are always handy.

It can generally be difficult to be a healer while focusing on crowd control as well, so dividing the responsibility up is helpful with a large enough group. I also feel like people underutilize debuffs--people do use Blind and Fireflies and the bludgeon tree debuffs, but forget about the Juxtapose combos (Clumsy, Evaporate, Imbecile Incantation, Enfeeblement) against bosses.

 

Hah, yeah if you're an archer, you're usually going to pull aggro at some point. Even if you wear a ring of the mouse and the tank has a troll belt and is spamming attacks and taunts all the live long day, you're still going to pull aggro. Damage still trumps taunts for aggro, especially from archers who already do big single target numbers, usually quick hits even from auto attacks and a good bit on crits. Depending on your archery skills it can make that aggro on you even faster. Best bet is if you get aggro, keep a charged disabling shot on the mob (if its vulnerable to it) and some speed on you and kite it toward the tanks until they can peel aggro again. I think Chris said he is or needs to revisit the "taunt"/aggro mechanics again last live stream.

Also, depends on the tank if they can dish out high dps as well, and/or stacking with taunts or not even using taunts. Damage is king.

 

If you're a tank and you have a proper healer that keeps you healed, you are so much more effective (and dangerous).

However, a lot depends on level. Now that I'm 90th level (with buffs anyway), things are way, way different than a few weeks ago (beat the game around level 66).

It think some long term players are so high level they may have forgotten about how the game is up until around level 80 and figuring out what does and doesn't work.

I'd also suggest leaving your char stats open when you are using certain attacks, as it can be illuminating as to what order you should do certain things.