Inconsistent XP rewards make most of this game feel pointless.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aetrion, Aug 14, 2018.

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  1. Dread1313

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    I don't agree with this. And I also don't think its that simple.
     
  2. Dread1313

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    I like this idea, and wish it were reality - but sadly its never the case. From a cost and time standpoint, devs would rather nerf one thing that is effecting everyone, rather than buff 100+ things that are affecting one thing.
     
  3. Witcheypoo

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    I find UT boring, so i, most of the time do not go...however, i always go when the guild wants me there. I am a slow moving, easy going player, i don't "powerlevel" and I don't aim to be soloing any major meanies anytime soon. Sure, I do look up to those who can solo dragons and i think a lot of them and maybe, someday i will get to where i too can do those things, but my joy is in the journey. This is how I played UO, this is how i played WoW and all of the other games i have played. It irritates my husband as he is more of a rusher, he has major goals and wants them NOW. I think the double xp weekends (rarely! like once a month, one weekend) are ok, even very neat.. that said, i think this every weekend thing has got to go.

    Yes, up the generalized xp gained when you are fighting things "at level", maybe 20-30% but having the double xp every weekend creates the burnout syndrome. That worries me. When folks get those 100+ gm skills, what else is there to do? maybe farm rise, maybe farm dragons? i don't know and i, for one, am in NO hurry to find out!

    Witchey
     
  4. Sol Stormlin

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    How about, having access to certain areas only when you reach a certain adventure level. Which means you can only go in when you reach that level. Adjust character skill effectiveness to scale with those areas so that it's possible to eventually solo it, or go in groups of the same levels.
     
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  5. Mugly Wumple

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    It's not that Upper Tears is generating too much XP, rather it's imbalanced to the rest of the scenes and an effort is being made to balance them. What fun is the game if everyone is just playing the same scene over and over? I'll admit that the effort/reward ratio is out of whack. Yet I think it unwise to listen to those who feel driven to play the same scene repeatedly. Isn't this game more than just accumulating XP?
     
  6. Andartianna

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    I think raising exp for several zones is a great idea and it has already been talked about by Chris along with a slight nerf coming on the next release to upper tears so what you want is already in the works for upper tears.
     
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  7. yinki2

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    no need a tutorial for new player, just create a lobby at UT cave, add a fighter trainer and some merchand.
    big guilds will wait for them there, welcome them, teach them basics and PL them straight :p
     
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  8. Mykll

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    Can also do that with scaling XP. Anything too far below or above your level you get 0 XP or very close to it.

    Everyone feeling forced into EQ's "Powerlevel Caverns" wasn't much fun, either.
     
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  9. Spoon

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    @Dread1313

    You might want to check Chris' forum blog. The nerf is already checked in and going live next release.
    Not due to the forums but rather due to the metrics/statistics was higher than he wanted.

    I do wish that they would ease in new scenes/concepts by starting low on rewards and then increase it over time as they see how players use it.
    Instead of going in too high and then aggravate everyone by reducing it.
     
  10. kaeshiva

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    I think the main reason why we "need" XP is otherwise you'd just have people stood in town macroing - this was prevalent in games like UO. Even if not using a script, standing in town pressing a button over and over is not really a satisfying experience, thus the need to 'fill the tank' so to speak, to fuel your skills.

    I am ok with the system and how it works in general. I don't even have an issue with the skill costs, though many complain that they have to spend "too much time" doing PvE or that they can't "compete" with people who have put in over a hundred times their effort. That always makes me laugh a bit. for several reasons: the diminishing returns make further grind give negligible benefit after a certain point. Returns diminish so much beyond 100, esp beyond 120 that as long as you've made a nod in the direction of actually developing your character, you can "compete." Its not all about experience and gear, player skill can make up for a LOT, so can thoughtful deckbuilding and buttonmash/execution ability. Lastly, this game has always been more of a marathon than a sprint, favoring slow incremental progress over "max out in a week". UT/Double changes the entire pace of gameplay.

    I agree wholeheartedly about the Double XP/UT situation. Its completely changed player attitudes, and not for the better. It creates a 'MUST GRIND' situation since the double is a limited time commodity. People are less likely to do other things when its "grind time." Because its double, and only for a short time, the natural inclination is to do the most lucrative thing possible, even if said thing is not "fun" or your character can't meaningfully contribute. I see people now being powergrinded in a single weekend beyond the adventure level I achieved in my first YEAR in this game. That's absurd. Sure, they're skipping some growing pains and heartache levels but they're missing all the good stuff too - exploring things and doing things and learning zones that, after a weekend at the UT spa, are now trivial and will likely never be worth a visit. There's also "double xp hangover" in that once you've done UT at those rates everything else seems slow and horrible. Dragging new players to UT is one of the worst things you can do for player retention, no matter how good your intentions. Cause everything they do after that by comparison is, a slog. And they want that next XP

    I think one of the biggest problems is that UT is literally the only scene in the game where a full group can attenuate easily. Superstition Canyon as well, but its a lot more difficult and requires a more optimized team so it wasn't as easy to just take anyone on the LFG tool and go. Even in the days of monkey room if the group size was above solo/duo you couldn't achieve such absurd amounts of experience - not even close. There are a couple other places where a solo player can attenuate during double, but it takes a lot longer than 20 minutes. to do. And if you bring someone with you, your gains per hour plummet.

    I think UT is good for grouping. Or it was, before it was made more difficult, causing the 7-pages-and-still-going thread about "Elitism" because people want to restrict who joins their team in order to be successful. Before the difficulty bump, it was awesome - take anyone, go together, have fun. But sadly, its the only show in town and the harder they make it the less good it is for "grouping" and the more it becomes another niche zone for the high lvls to churn out XP hour, after hour, after hour. Honestly, I think the devs just need to make a decision about how they want the pace of gameplay to be. If they want it to be fast, with people achieving a "capable" level after a week - then up the xp rate, add more zones like UT. If they want it to be slow, and have the game journey be more long term, then stop with this nonsense. That's the decision point right there - what's the vision?

    Personally, I may hate that UT completely negates the 2 years of effort I've invested levelling my character far, far more slowly - but, if its better for the game, I can get over that. I'm just not convinced its better for the game. I'm seeing my friends list dwindle from two full pages to less than a dozen people an hour after they shut double off. I have seen zero groups on the LFG tool every time I've looked while double was off. I mean...I get it - why go grind NOW when you can grind on FRIDAY and its twice as lucrative? That just makes good sense. Unless you work weekends of course, or have other obligations. If we're going to have this limited time double thing I think we should at least go back to making it the full week so its even handed. Either that or put it to always on (change game pace to faster) or stop doing it entirely (change game pace back to normal.)
     
  11. Phoenix007

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    I think that is not the case. The adventurer level change the hit chance (difference between the target level and your level).
     
  12. kaeshiva

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    What evidence do you have of this?

    I think it may have done this at some time or another. I'm unclear on whether or not this actually helps by changing a target from "orange" to "yellow" for example - but once stuff is green to you, further adventure level doesn't appear to have any benefit whatsoever. I know Arkah's done testings on offline mode where such things are easy to manipulate - showing no benefit at all from the "level" feature itself. I'm not sure the specific parameters of this test, however.

    From my own experience, doing the level-blessing and the level-necklace and the level-lute and bumping my "level" significantly makes no noticeable difference to anything I do. I do not know however, if that's because most things in the game are already 'green' to me, or if because level doesn't do anything, period. The only thing it seems to do is give a marginal HP/Focus increase. "+Level" stuff used to be worth it when the hp/focus per level was more significant, but now we're talking like 5 hp.
     
  13. Phoenix007

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  14. kaeshiva

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    Yeah, I remember this, and the health/focus values were changed (nerfed) pretty significantly to where levelling up you may not even notice the increase. I'm okay with that. But this is from over a year ago, so not sure if it is still relevant.
    If you follow the link on your link, to Chris's post about hit chance:

    Which is consistent with my experience that boosting "level" once the mobs are already yellow/green isn't having any benefit. I suppose its probably only relevant when you are very low level or unless you are fighting a boss. Even then it is a "small" bonus.
    He also confirms that level has no impact on mobs ability to hit you, since people were previously able to trivialize low level scenes.

    This is all of course assuming nothing's changed in a year...;)

    Levelling up of course is the natural sequence of things, but reading this kind of reinforces my stance to "not bother" with adventure level boosting items/buffs as unless you're trying to kill red/orange stuff its not going to help you.
     
  15. Timmy Vortex

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    Just wanted to chime in that everytime there's a new area it becomes the go-to spot to be in (then it gets nerfed often) and afterwards another new area gets published; that's the new spot. Just stop doing that so there's alot of zones out there where you can farm xp :p It will also promote the sandbox ..more sand.
     
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  16. CatweazleX

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    What they actually do. Grinding/leaching crafting or adventuring XP somewhere and macro up skills elsewhere. Needed resources are bought with $.

    When i started with UO end 1997 it was a use and difficult based system.
     
  17. kaeshiva

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    That's kinda what I'm talking about. Without "experience" then you just have people sat in town casting a spell over and over all day. I could make more progress standing in front of my house casting spells - there was no need to actually go fight anything. I believe this is why we have the hybrid system we have, its use-based, but xp-fueled. Instead of casting fireball 1000 times hoping to get it to level up by 0.1%, maybe,you fill the xp tank and then decide where it goes by what spells you use/cast. I don't have any issue with the system. The problem is that when you can inject millions of experience into a low level avatar you completely trivialize the growth process, which then becomes by comparison a horribly slow slog when they go back to the tier3-5 areas they are able to handle alone.
     
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  18. Turk Key

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    Ya all can crucify me, but my opinion is that the real problem is the absurd carrot offered for drawing people to group by giving them essentially free experience. This is free experience because there is much less effort and skill needed to earn it. I think that you can draw an equivalence between group experience acquisition and solo (perhaps macro) grinding. From my perspective, the double experience point is probably the sweet point for most players, and that experience should be awarded by actual player interaction with mobs. With the now "preferred group" mechanic, how do you even know what real skill players have? For sure adv level is meaningless if people show up who have essentially just been hanging around skillful players for awhile, watching their adv level increase. I believe we should have double experience all the time, earned by individual mob on player interaction.
     
  19. Arkah EMPstrike

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    There is no hit chance stat anymore. Dex and dodge are the only things that cause somethign to dodge you
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
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  20. Toadster

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    Stopped loggin in as much because of this... I don’t want to just grind one spot, but one spot is the only place you can easily attain that amount of exp with very little risk so everyone is there on double exp days.
     
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