Livestream and decay

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Barugon, Oct 4, 2018.

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  1. Black FjP

    Black FjP Avatar

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    I disagree with that completely, that is the entire mindset that drove me and many other players away from the mainstream MMOs of today, and the reason that I chose to play this "oldschool" game. There should be things that only the best players can do, and there should be things that even they can just barely do.

    So far what I'm taking out of this thread is that people don't want anything to be hard, and they don't want to lose anything when they die. There are many games like this that already exist, almost all of them, this is the one game for me.
     
  2. Calan Caitin

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    Well, you are free to take from it as you will, but you are missing my point completely. What I am saying is: By making a monster based on the abilities of a handful of players effectively will make it near impossible for most other players. Even in a full party, they will experience multiple deaths which and still may not be able to kill it. Which is why I mentioned there needs to be a baseline for the creature and then have it scale up for parties and or badass mode players. Nothing in that is saying "I want it easier".
     
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  3. mugmas

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    I will be honest, I think decay is an ok concept on paper, but frankly more of an annoyance and time sink in practice.

    I loose 700k on first death, that equates to less than 30min in the rise, even post nerf. It isnt a big deal, but it is annoying, and frankly makes me think twice on doing harder content.

    I think for overall health of the game, if it is a barrier,or detraction to gain or maintain a player base, it should be removed.

    What to replace it with? Maybe 30min of attunement where you gain xp at a reduced rate? This is a punishment that is equally annoying, but not as punitive or "scary". Gear decay would be ok, as long as it is not total total durability, because gear crafting can be equally painful to get that "perfect" piece.

    Bottom line Risk vs Reward is not really there, like mentioned above the high level mobs, really have nothing on them worth having, or the drop rate isn't there on the "rare" drop that is worth the risk, and forcing players to recoup XP for trying seems counter productive.
     
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  4. Black FjP

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    Well, I think you misunderstood, I think there should be selective content that only the top tier of players should be able to do, and it should absolutely be near impossible for most other players, regardless of how many deaths.
     
  5. majoria70

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    No I don't think it is about things being hard for reasons against no decay. Most players have never liked the choice. Of course there needs to be content that not everyone can do solo until they have done the work. imo. I too have played many MMOs. Vanguard Saga of Heroes had a very big hit against you but the game managed other things that made up for it. It was interesting for one thing, not to say this game isn't but we are still missing some dynamics. For example in Ultima Online you had to go get your body, find a wandering healer, and you could sometimes need to walk around forever as a ghost, not saying do that exactly but some interesting ideas to make a player plan for death or try to avoid it and it does not have to be decay. Some games even reward you for death such as Project Gorgon and give you things to do during death. Here is a quote from a Poll:

    "It is thought that the pain of losing is psychologically about twice as powerful as the pleasure of gaining..."

    "A good example to illustrate this is the following: given a choice, an average person would b two times more motivated to prevent the loss of $100 than he would if given the chance to gain $100. Most studies have shown that losing is actually 2.3 times more powerful than gaining and others have shown it to be 5 times more powerful. Loss looms larger than gains. In the human mind, we are more apt to focus on a potential loss than a potential gain. We want to protect what we have and what we have worked for. This trait is a big part of the human experience and probably helps to explain why we have survived and prospered as a species in a dangers and hostile world. Probably the best example of loss aversion in MMOs is the daily quest. The daily quest was invented by Blizzard in their Burning Crusade expansion. As daily quests become part of the MMO landscape many players felt compelled to log on and complete their daily quests because if they did not, they would "lose" the opportunity to gain reputation, experience, and money. If a player failed to log on that day, there is no way they could ever recoup that loss"

    Again talking about loss. Decay is loss. Loss of time, loss of hard work. It is featured on the "loss" side of things. Decay = Loss. I understand where you are coming from in your opinion but this battle has been going on for months at least and decay has lost. Who knows what the replacement will be. I hope a lot of thought has gone into what that will be.
     
  6. 2112Starman

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    But... how has that worked out? Where is this games population?

    I fired up ESO after being out for 4ish years and played it for a few weeks and quit again. Sota is far better... all around... period.

    Now I fired Wow back up after being gone for 12 years. I looked at the 5 lvl 70 chars I had and upgraded one to lvl 110. But wow, while the game is so simple compared to SOTA, I am amazed at how fun it really is/was. Its just FUN. They have this whole new battle pets system and I've been going to town on it (It feels lie a mix between final Phantasy and Pokemon). While the graphics are shockingly simple today, its just FUN. I've done many quests and ya, they are on rails like everything else but its FUN. There is SO much to do, and I realize how much of a rut I've been in SOTA for a year now, just mindlessly farming (to an OCD level) the same content with really nothing to truly do, there is NO end game here.
     
  7. Calan Caitin

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    Well with that kind of thinking, I guess we should all be happy you are not a developer. Creating content targeted for a select handful of players in the game over the masses is just ridiculous.
     
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  8. eli

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    Decay punishes you for doing content that is challenging and rewards you for safe grinding.

    It completely fails in it's intended goal of curbing endgame progression as a soft-cap.

    Whatever replaces it, I hope it reverses the challenge incentive and actually caps skill progression in some way.
     
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  9. kl4nk

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    What could replace decay? I can see something like this.

    You die, you drop 1% of your cash. The cash bag is on a 15 min decay timer. If the loot bag decay, it goes into the "zone bank" that said zone bank contribute to the loot monster drops for 24h.

    So if by some miracle some monster that use to drop let say 40 gold. Start to drop 100s gold a kill. You know they will be droping that amount for a short time.


    I know a system like this would need alot of work . But it would kind of feel alot more like uo, where you had to retreive your gear.
     
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  10. Lazlo

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    I'm not going to prejudge whatever change gets made, but I hope it's something that's at least more simple and transparent than the current decay system.

    I don't really understand why decay isn't just removed at this point tbh. SotA has an xp system with steep diminishing returns and attenuation already. There is also gear damage and time lost on death, which isn't a huge deal, but it's enough that no one was indifferent to dying before decay was added.
     
  11. kaeshiva

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    There's been a lot of good ideas.
    Death - instantly attenuate, halving all xp gains until xx elapsed time. Slows progression, but doesn't completely screw over group content (where xp isn't necessarily the objective)
    Some sort of debt pool (that has an upper limit!) where half your ongoing gains or even all of them go to pay that off first before you can level up skills
    Some sort of timed/temporary stat penalty that is cumulative with multiple deaths, that you either wait or perhaps pay the oracle to remove if sooner. Could even make potions to clear it, adding additional commodity/consumption/sink.
    Any of the above would discourage me from dying without also discouraging me from continuing to play.
     
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  12. Black FjP

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    They arent selected, they have the power to select themselves. Honestly this is the same argument that has ruined every game I have ever played, "why release content that only a select few can reach"? becuase it gives me something to strive for, becuase I enjoy being challenged and I even enjoy failing to meet that challenge, and if you take the sting out of a failure then it really isn't a failure at all, becuase you will eventually just get lucky if you keep beating your head against a wall.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  13. Nib

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    Can you support the revenue needs of this game by yourself? If not I guess they need to appeal to a wider audience than just you.
     
  14. Frederick Glasgow

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    I have been against decay from the start. The reason is, it is an unrealistic mechanic. You work to gain XP and maybe join a party to make it more efficient. Someone overpulls or does something wrong and everyone pays a penalty for it. So you try not to group because you don't want another persons mistake messing you over by losing XP because of it.
    And I know there will be the standard replies from god-like people who say how they can grind a gazillion XP per hour, well guess what? Most of us regular folks are not you. This affects the average player more than anyone, and the numerous folks who play with disabilities, yes like me, we stand no chance. And throw in some folks may have 1-2 hours of game time per day, a death can suck the life out of their will to grind again to regain their XP loss. Is death an inevitable part of the game, of course, it is and it should be. But having a penalty that forces players to choose the lesser path of resistance because they will constantly have to grind and grind to regain where they were should not be an option.
     
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  15. Barugon

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    The problem with decay is perception. Most people have the idea that it's very punishing when, in reality, it's very trivial and they will suggest alternatives like damage to gear, which would be way more punishing.
     
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  16. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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  17. Anpu

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    If I am remembering correctly, the entire decay thing is to keep people from leveling all skills?

    There’s probably a better way to do that however.

    I am completely terrified of dying, basically because I’m mostly casual. And I don’t just run around Upper Tiers attuning. I just like running around checking stuff out. And a bit of grinding here and there...
     
  18. xadoor

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    If the only thing keeping the game from being "utterly boring" for you is decay I can't imagine why you are still here....that's just SCREAMING hyperbole. There are tons of exaggerations on both sides of this issue that aren't helping anything. At MOST its the last straw to break the camel's back. Certainly not a primary reason to stay/quit.
     
  19. xadoor

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    "
    We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
    "

    Notice, no mention of "cause it was dangerous and we will be punished for failing"

    People will risk death trying to do something hard cause its hard(and hopefully rewarding if completed). There is no need for the decay, its not serving the purpose it was intended to serve and its constantly the cause of these divisive threads. I call the BLUFF OF ALL WHO SAY they will leave if its removed/not removed...POST ON THIS THREAD and lets make it BINDING...I dare you all. Less than 10% of those that say they'll leave will leave in either case.

    DOWN DOWN WITH DECAY
    DOWN DOWN WITH DECAY

    thou I shutter to think what it will be replaced with....
     
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  20. xadoor

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    yes!!! THIS X 10...but lets not accept decay just cause teh alternative is worse...REMOVE DECAY and replace with.....*drumroll*


    NOTHING!!!
     
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