Melee tank type looking for hints

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Trevour, Oct 24, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Trevour

    Trevour Avatar

    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cleveland Oh
    Two handed tank in plate. I have thousands of hours played. Decent armor and weapon (+9 to +14 range). Most skills are 100.... some are 120. I play with all the defensive buffs. I leveled all the magic schools just to get the resistance. After the last couple releases, I feel weak. Mages and archers tear me apart. They crit for over a hundred points of damage.... and they seem to crit 30 to 40% of the time. These mobs are green. I cannot find a combination of skills or items or armor to counter.

    I do not want to play a mage. I do not want to grind hundreds of hours for 2% more defense.... just to have Chris or Bcotton balance away six months work in a patch.

    Is there anything I am missing? How do I feel less weak? Preferably without downgrading to T4 zones.

    Thanks
     
  2. mystarr

    mystarr Avatar

    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    • A shield makes a huge difference vs archers (and also helps some vs mages)
    • Crowd control (Stuns) do a lot to lower incoming damage (People that are stunned aren't doing any damage to you)
      • Body slam is good for closing to ranged enemies AND stunning them
      • If you are getting slowed and kited to death by archers you can also try using knights grace (It removes slows)
    • Keeping healing grace running also makes a big difference in survive-ability
     
    Sentinel2, Jaesun and that_shawn_guy like this.
  3. Almar

    Almar Avatar

    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    689
    Trophy Points:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    I feel your pain. I have now given up on ever being a melee tank. This is just not that kind of game.

    I'm looking at other options now. Both in this game and elsewhere.
     
  4. Mobidoy Querrent

    Mobidoy Querrent Avatar

    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario, Canada
    Strange as I got the opposite effect. I play 2 roles, either tank with sword and shield or DPS/PVE solo with Dual weapons.

    What made a huge differrence to me was switching from being Blades and Tactics spec to Blades and earth spec.

    It also depends on the buffs you are using as some overide other ( fortify defense and Glancing blow ), what stance you are using, which shield buff etc...

    Mages damages can be reduce a lot with attunement in the magic tree as you did but, also casting celestial blessing, purify burst and douse.

    When I am dual wielding, here are the buffs I can on me (that is, with a mixed spawn of melee/archer/mages )

    Strength of earth, Celestial blessing, shield of crystal, purify burst, Elysian Illumination ( for the small regen), earth embrace, douse, ignite weapon, defensive stance, glancing blow and inner strength.

    I usualy go to either archers first or mage keeping the melee last.
     
    Dhanas and Sentinel2 like this.
  5. Trevour

    Trevour Avatar

    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cleveland Oh
    I am doing nearly everything that Mobi suggests. I might have to look at celestial blessing and Elysian illumination. I am using the hell over time from life tree and water. Using defensive stance with crystal shield. I am spaced in bludgeon and life. Earth passives are 100. You are getting those results in T8 - T10 zones? They are not consistently hitting you for more then 100 damage?
     
  6. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    3,738
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    earth... mostly
    move! try to stay behind your target as much as possible. this reduces their hits and increases your crit chance. if you can manage it, getting 2-3 target close to each other helps.

    also, fireflies your target often. If you're using blades, your first hit should be a fully charged rend and you last hits should be charged coup de grace. I usually start coup when they get down to about 1/3 of the health. a 5 stack of thrust starts getting good in the 80s as well.

    but, moving behind the targets made the biggest difference for my survivability.
     
    Dhanas likes this.
  7. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,678
    Likes Received:
    24,293
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    They changed this sometime back. It no longer increases your chance for a critical but it will increase your damage if you have the Backstab skill.
     
    Jaesun and that_shawn_guy like this.
  8. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    3,738
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    earth... mostly
    interesting. i haven't noticed a drop in my crits. i'll have to pay more attention i guess. :)
     
  9. Turk Key

    Turk Key Avatar

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    4,012
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I was using defensive stance, crystal, avoidance et al and had the same result as you. I even posted about it somewhere. The solution for me was to stop using defensive stance. As soon as I did my toon was much more effective with essentially the same build. I (my opinion) believe that defensive stance is working perhaps opposite of what it is supposed to..... For what it is worth. Give it a try.
     
  10. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

    Messages:
    1,497
    Likes Received:
    3,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think melee tank is still pretty decent. If you're usually solo, I think that it's best to try to keep a good balance of damage and defense, because killing stuff faster will save you as much damage as anything else.

    Weapon damage armor is a lot better solo than the purely defensive stuff. Having some kind of charge skill locked is helpful. Body slam is obviously very good, but engage can also save you a ton of damage when you get snared by archers, and it doesn't damage your gear and has a range of 20 at lvl 120.

    I prefer dual wielding either blades or polearms, but if you're already using 2h blunt and need more defense, you can fairly easily buy or farm a Torc 2hb weapon with mossy handle that has +100hps and +0.5% regen.

    If you're not happy with your current specs, you can also try using a spec on death for the -fizzle bonus, which is good enough to allow you to use death shield pretty easily in full plate.
     
  11. Grimbone

    Grimbone Avatar

    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Didn't see Parry mentioned. Have you tried Parry in Defensive Stance?
     
  12. Mobidoy Querrent

    Mobidoy Querrent Avatar

    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario, Canada
    I do use parry but more as a tank with shield, parry, deflect, inner strength, glancing blow and defensive stance.
     
  13. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,678
    Likes Received:
    24,293
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    You can't parry arrows though.
     
  14. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    11,010
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington, DC
  15. Kaffien

    Kaffien Avatar

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    903
    Trophy Points:
    75
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Blue Rose Isle, Crafters Town, Black Rock Cove
    Please excuse the wall of text. This is what I've done so far. Many of the skills aren't even GM'd but still a work in progress.

    Make sure you put as much as you can up till GM anyhow, in Strength and Healthy.


    A few things help your melee tanking type character. Basically things that add health / strength because they go hand in hand.
    Also Damage avoidance and as backup damage resistance.

    Tactics Tree, keep leveling that Strength and Healthy skills and heavy lifter (helps you carry more stuff, if you keep moving fast you die less)
    Make sure to get defensive stance and fortify defenses, more damage avoidance is amazing, make sure you stack it for max effect.
    Also consider taking armor and weapon preservation, as a plate / heavy wearer you will find yourself beat up on a lot, those skills make your gear last longer between repairs.

    Earth Tree, you'll need the sympathy of stone and bulwark of earth. Also Strength of Earth and Shield of crystal, level em up high and use always.

    Heavy Armour tree, Inner strength stacks with strength of earth very nicely. All the passives pretty much, plus knights grace. That one is handy for ENDING stuns. first skill glancing blow is very useful.

    Polearms, pretty much everything, plus the passives to increase your damage avoidance. I use puncture, skewer, trip and spinning attack. Charge them up to avoid huge focus costs
    Shield skills if you're going spear n board. Great skill to have especially shield bash, charge, and redirection. I liked polearms because even your basic attack with a halberd hits 4 people.

    Moon Magic, Fireflies huge negatives to enemies critical hit ability to both melee and ranged.
    Sun Magic, Blind denies your enemies their damage avoidance and lets you hit them hard. (for extra bonus damage get a weapon with atanism / blinding (procs blindness that stacks with the spell.)

    Focus Treet, Get down to follow through, max it up to diminish the issues of focus / fizzling in plate armour.

    Sbterfuge, back stab, weakpoints (extra damage) and safe fall for the love of god. It hurts falling in plate make it hurt a little less.

    Life magic, your spells in the life and earth trees are less likely to fail if you are wearing heavy armor compared to the other circles of magic. Healing and resurrection spells are good to have.
    Water Magic, earn your water elemental, having a buddy to help you keep healed while taking a pounding is great.

    As a tank you may wish to consider specializing in both a weapon and shield. Personally I chose Polearms and Life magic.
    The choice is up to you.

    I also like white iron armor, the bonus to life is very handy while tanking. if you go shields you can add a little extra armour.
    Make friends with a great enchanter, and have them buff you equipment further.

    I'd also suggest picking up celestial blessing from moon magic its low end and can be cast while wearing plate, use it to avoid death / drain damage from ghosts. VERY handy spell.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  16. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

    Messages:
    3,118
    Likes Received:
    7,912
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Healthy sucks, its an expensive passive that only gets you 1 hp per level, where as str gets you more then 1 hp per level depending on your level, at level 130 you get 3.04 hp per str. If its a physical thing you are fighting death shield will do more for you then shield of crystal. A skill you want to use from shield is deflect for more block rating, and if your getting cced a lot bolster balance. With all the things that shoot fire douse is a must. Inner calm is what makes things cost less focus, not follow through, that just reduces fizzle. Falling does not matter what armor you wear, a safe fall of 60 is good enough at lower levels and I still only have mine at 80, it really does not need to go much higher. If you really need to take some huge falls, equip a ring of cats grace and use a potion of cats grace. Polearm does not increase avoidance, defensive position passive does damage resistance, and I find damage resistance is pretty blah. The parry skill can be useful, and if your tactics spec and using a offhand weapon you get even more bonus parry. If you got someone with you and you 2 can use valiant warden on each other, its the ultimate in tanking. I will fill in more later.
     
    Almar and Lesni like this.
  17. Gyzarus

    Gyzarus Avatar

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    207
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Alphaine here, the idea of a good tank, is not to get hit all the time, rather always draw the aggro towards you all the time, learn to "drag" them around on corners for coverage buff defennce. It's all in the plan. You can also tune in my twitch.tv/alphaine to have a visual explanation on what I was saying. You can directly post your questions in chat. Will be live soon in 1 hour time.
     
    Lesni likes this.
  18. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

    Messages:
    3,118
    Likes Received:
    7,912
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Maybe this will help without me having to type a bunch of stuff.
     
    Almar and Lesni like this.
  19. Girlsname

    Girlsname Avatar

    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    532
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon
    Polearm & Pulling mobs behind barrels/tables helps, like a lot.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.