Tell me what you think about this idea for supply bundles

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Worfgar, Feb 4, 2019.

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  1. Worfgar

    Worfgar Avatar

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    Original Suggestion:

    Grey - always drops a recall or teleport scroll + chance of a recipe
    Yellow - always drops recall or teleport + 1 recipe + chance of an artifact
    Blue - Always drop recall or teleport + 1 recipe + 1 artifact + chance of a random blueprint
    Orange - Always drop recall or teleport + 1 recipe + 2 artifacts + 1 blueprint + chance of an additional blueprint or artifact

    New Suggestion after comments in thread:

    Grey - always drops crafting fuel / gold + chance of a recipe
    Yellow - always drops crafting fuel / gold + 1 recipe + chance of an artifact
    Blue - Always drop crafting fuel /gold + 1 recipe + 1 artifact + chance of a random blueprint
    Orange - Always crafting fuel / gold + 1 recipe + 2 artifacts + 1 blueprint + chance of an additional blueprint or artifact
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  2. Jason_M

    Jason_M Avatar

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    I'm not quite sure that I'm following the very specific focus on recall and teleport scrolls...

    I encourage you to support the New Britannian Alchemist's Union.
     
  3. Lars vonDrachental

    Lars vonDrachental Avatar

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    I would instead suggest this:

    Grey – 100-150 gold + 2 stacks of random not creatable items (wax, coal, painting,..)

    Yellow = 200-400 gold + 3 stacks of random not creatable items (wax, coal, painting,..) + either low chance for 1 recipe/artifact/blueprint or high chance for 1 stack of crafting item (harvestable goods like wood or mandrake, intermediate goods like boards or ingots, final goods like scrolls or weapons)

    Blue = 500-800 gold + 5 stacks ofr andom not creatable items (wax, coal, painting,..) + either medium chance for 1 recipe/artifact/blueprint or medium chance for 1 stack of crafting item (harvestable goods like wood or mandrake, intermediate goods like boards or ingots, final goods like scrolls or weapons)

    Orange = 900-1500 gold + 7 stacks of not creatable random items (wax, coal, painting,..) + either medium chance for 1 recipe/artifact/blueprint or medium chance for 2 stacks of crafting item (harvestable goods like wood or mandrake, intermediate goods like boards or ingots, final goods like scrolls or weapons)


    Just as @Jason_M I’m not a big fan of craftable items that continuously drop as loot as I would guess e.g. since scrolls started to drop as loot the general usage of the scroll recipes is near zero.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  4. Crendel

    Crendel Avatar

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    This subject is a sore point for me, I opened an orange bundle ans didnt get anything of value. A few lesser potions, some gold and some braided loaf....on an oranhe bundle ..I agree if you make an item a rare drop it should have aome level of standard items
     
  5. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

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    the blues and oranges have chances at deeds too though.
     
  6. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Agree that the supply bundles need help.
    With the number of potential recipes in the pool getting the one you need the chances are exceedingly slim, the rate on these could be bumped across the board.
    I'd get all the crap single pieces of fruit, cake, maps, etc. and just remove them from the potential stuff. Replace with crafting fuels or something at least useful.
    Agree that blue/orange should always give something worthwhile, I've opened so many of these and never gotten anything more valuable than a gem, which is frustrating to say the least. They aren't exciting anymore, but rather "pending disappointments."
     
  7. Worfgar

    Worfgar Avatar

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    Thank you @Jason_M I didn't think of that and agree with you. Instead crafting fuel items does work a lot better and doesn't hurt someone trying to make a living selling scrolls. I also agree with @Crendel An orange supply bundle for as hard as they are to obtain should ALWAYS drop something worthwhile. Reward vs. effort spent to obtain one needs to be worthwhile. Also Thank you @kaeshiva Agree as well that all crap food items need to go. Worthless. @Mac2 understood I just think there needs to be more than chances. Guarantees on the higher level bundles like blue/orange for sure. Having guaranteed minimums would really help out a lot across all bundles.
     
  8. Curt

    Curt Avatar

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    So to support the ... should they drop : coupon 50% of on ... at ... ?
     
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  9. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    Loot as a whole is terrible as for supply bundles .

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...y-bundle-contents-what-why.98235/#post-865918


    If you are killing a critter that can drop an orange bundle by your thoughts then
    so when killed you "roll" loot and no bundle = zilch but if a bundle appears you get 4 possible 5 items of value???

    Point is if I Kill a critter of that tier should it not just give a chance at any of the 4 (5) items you listed, the bundle is ?

    sorry the core of loot needs to be fixed first.

    and I still say bundles are completely pointless.

    Proof in point it the other day I looted a Back Pack that was crafted. Why, is that even an option?
     
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  10. Mandalar

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    I agree. Loot needs some work. Loots is what drives people to grind. I like what they did with the bone armor and the staff of death and anarchy. more items like that would give people a reason to grind, and farm zones.

    yes the BLUE / ORANGE supply bundles need tweeking.
     
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  11. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I would be more for specific location/monster drop loot than having everything including blueprint in those supply bags.
    They are meant to drop recipe scroll and thats it. Some artifact specifically from those supply bags, while most artifact drop randomly from monsters.
    I hate the current loot system because its not specific location or monster drop. Why would i kill the same monster over and over and be able to access all the stuff in the game? That would be stupid imo

    The fun in a game and what make people explore is trying to find monster they never seen and try to drop something from it. THAT is fun. Thats what i was doing before with the mediocre loot system we had. Some monster did drop specific stuff in that time, when i think of that huge slime that dropped jewels specific artifact, or vrul that were dropping certain arti more than other etc. Now even a zombie can drop an arti. There so many artifact that shop are filled with it and they aint worth anything anymore... Things need to be rarer, not more common! And that is common sense.

    One more reality is monster drop way more gold, yet everything goes down in price, the economy is so broken that its not even worth crafting stuff or getting treasure anymore. The only worth treasure last a month after being released and then its done, there already too many around and price start dropping. There some people claiming to make 300k a day out loud and devs know about it. Power gamers are all around, stuff should be worth alot more. Some items that were 500k before are now worth 25-50k. All that price drop happened in a year, kinda crazy when you think about it. Never saw any game drop values of stuff by 1000% in the same year.

    And personally i dont care about that casual dude that play 2 hours a week and cant get anything. Its not them that make the game live imo. And thats also what guild are made for, if you want stuff you cant get, you ask your guild for help. The people that really play the game and want to have fun want everything i said. How i know? Everytime i complain about it i get tons of message from people saying im right and thats why most of their friend quit the game. That should ring a bell, seeing how the population is dropping drastically every month.

    I'm a treasure hunter, my goal in any game is to get those rare treasure that people can hardly get their hand on. They did exist, and i had tons of fun getting them. But now fun is gone and i see people that ask for things to be more common. Its getting really depressing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
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  12. yinki2

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    please just add a chance to loot some cotos in bundles when conversion x100 is live.
     
  13. kaeshiva

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    I agree about the localization of drops ...it would make a lot more sense than having everything be a global drop. I've killed that demon a lot of times, never seen him drop a heart. I've gotten a vrul heart out of UT, and one off a shock monkey, but never from the demon himself. Seems wrong-ish. Would make more sense to tie certain things to certain mobs.

    Re: rarity - the problem in sota has always been that a handful of powergamers go farm all the stuff and sell it at a premium to the majority of the playerbase who can't solo farm the stuff like a powergamer can. Its worth a lot at first, until the market gets flooded with it. I think the direction to go in general would be make the drop rates more common per kill, but make the killing less frequent -like if you've already looted a dragon today, you can continue to kill them, but you default to the current "crap loot." Many games utilize quest flags to achieve this to prevent overfarming of items. The powergamers of course can, and will,make a schedule of 'doing the rounds' to do each boss, because that's what powergamers do, but it would at least make it so that boss farming wasn't a complete waste of time for anynoe who can't solo steamroll it, as is currently the case. A group of lower levels who team up, die trying but finally manage to fell a large creature being rewarded with a handful of wax and a gem that they have to figure out how to split 8 ways, is downright demoralizing. Its not worth it - they're better off spending their time grinding more cash out of the game and buying it off a powergamer. This is a bad system.
     
  14. Worfgar

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    Great points @kaeshiva I too have killed Vrul a few hundred times and never seen a heart but yet the lich in the rise dropped it once.
     
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  15. aetiv

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    Right up there with killing a troll with 10,000 hp to get 5 gp then walking over to a dead corpse to get 1 gp. The loot system makes it hard to continue with this game at times because it feels like you are never getting anywhere. As Kaeshiva pointed out, grouping up with other players doesn't even help in many cases as the higher tier mobs seem to give even less than many that are lower tiered.
     
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  16. Morhir (IronFist Warhamm

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    One thing I can say, I have TONS of atunement rings and musical instruments that are pretty much worthless like @devilcult has mentioned. Rings that used to sell for a modest amount are now practically worthless except for essences to repair items. I do like the fact that there are a few things like the heart of Vrul and the fleet flute that are still rare. And to agree with many, I got the heart of Vrul off a lich in The Rise. I have killed many Vrul's and never seen it drop the heart. Maybe Vrul drops the Ring of the Lich kind lol!

    Here is a novel ideal..... Why don't we get some new artifacts and put them in the game? Maybe have some new major artifacts and some minor ones (where the majors rarely drop and the minor drop a little more often). I think most players that play consistently pretty much have the existing artifacts that they want. Time for something new to hunt for.

    As far as supply bundles go... there is not much to say about them. It is rather disappointing to finally get a blue supply bundle only to find a fish stew and a health potion in it. What is worse is to find somebody else's junk with no durability on it that they crafted and sold as trash. I literally just try to sell mine when I can because they are not worth opening. It is increasingly impossible to even sell them.
     
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  17. Lars vonDrachental

    Lars vonDrachental Avatar

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    Well I think not really the topic but the general problem is everyone wants to have many artifacts as soon as possible but on the other hand they should be rare which is impossible to achive. ;)
    About the idea of @Morhir (IronFist Warhamm … well I guess for the experienced avatars adding from time to time new artifacts to hunt for is absolute reasonable but what about the new/young avatars? Out of their perspective you can buy all kinds of artifacts everywhere…so to say artifacts are nothing special for them even if they are not able to buy them and maybe there are simply already too many artifacts on the market.

    One solution could be that if you own a artifact it is not impossible but nearly impossible get the same artifact a second time. E.g. normal drop rate is 1% but the moment you get a artifact your possibility to get the same artifact again is reduced to 0.0000001%. (Maybe even your general artifacts drop rate could be reduced for each artifact you own. E.g. 1%/1 + number of owned artifact * number of owned artifact.)
    You could get "easy" a set of all artifacts but getting a second set just by looting would get quite difficult but on the other hand you would more likely get the artifacts you are currently missing in your collection.

    Another possibility could be that there is just a finite number of artifacts available. E.g. monthly avatar population / 10.
    If 1000 avatars are playing the game there should be not more than 100 of each artifact ingame and if for one artifact this number is reached this artifact stops dropping. If in the next month there are 1200 avatars playing 20 of each artifact are added to the loot tables and prior not dropping artifacts are dropping again.
    But of course this might create a stockpiling behavior with groups of avatars creating a monopole for specific artifacts or never dropping artifacts just because there are thousands in the inventories of currently not playing avatars.

    Another possibility could be to make artifact repairs not perfect. So to say with each repair the artifact is losing some of its benefits or prior not recognizable disadvantages get stronger and stronger.
    Just as an example the Heart of Vrul
    0 repairs = +10 Int, +25 Chaos Attunement
    1 repair = +9.5 Int, +24 Chaos Attunement or +10 Int, +25 Chaos Attunement, -0.5 Str
    2 repairs = +9 Int, +23 Chaos Attunement or +10 Int, +25 Chaos Attunement, -1 Str
    This way you could use the artifact for quite a while but sooner or later you need a fresh artifact and dismantle the worn artifact for its essence.

    Another idea would be that artifacts can be reworked by specific NPCs under specific conditions.
    E.g. from time to time some traveling NPCs mention that they heard that there is some mysterious smith in a dungeon but no one has ever found him but the moment you or your group of avatars have 8 Hearts of Vrul in the inventory this smith can be found in said dungeon. Talking to him he is offering for an insane amount of gold to rework the 8 Hearts of Vrul to 1 Hearts of Vrul+1.
    Next in a random encounter a NPC is appearing and while recognizing your Hearts of Vrul+1 he is saying that he might know someone who could be able to create a Hearts of Vrul+2 but is sharing the info not for free and is offering a questline or an even more insane payment.
    (Maybe on top this could even be a just one time available quest and talking with the hidden smith again he will complain that he is not willing to create a second +1-artifact for you.)
    Like in this example collecting multiple artifacts of the same type would have a purpose and also large numbers of artifacts would be removed.

    I guess there are quite some more ideas thinkable but I'm not sure if any of them is the "right" solutions to solve the riddle of creating many but rare artifacts.
     
  18. xadoor

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    Stats on items should have ranges..

    Instead of 20 health it should be 5-30 health
    Instead of 20 str how about 5-30 strength
    NOW: Imagine there is an artifact with 4 stats:
    5-30
    5-30
    5-30
    5-30
    The challenge would be to find a 30,30,30,30 perfect one. That allows players to farm quite a few of them but also allows for that hard core grinder to have something to keep looking for. Also the 5,5,5,5 version of the thing would be near worthless but for a new player it'd be a fantastic item.
     
  19. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Procedurally generated items would be a great improvements. Already been talked tought and no sign of it.
     
  20. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    This is the fundamental flaw with the "player vendored items as loot" idea. Most items costs thousands in materials to produce. If the item was so bad that the best course of action the crafter had was to sell that to an npc vendor for 30 gold return, well, why would anyone else want it? I suppose a few (very) new players could benefit from this sort of find, but you only start getting bundles of any flavor in at least T4-T5 scenes. And I'm looting unenchanted animal headdresses off of Tier 10 scene mobs. It is somewhat silly. Neat idea on paper but altogether impractical.
     
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