Soft Wipe for Episode #2 ? ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Weins201, Mar 4, 2019.

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  1. Mishikal

    Mishikal Avatar

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    What I heard Chris describe in his live stream today about the soft wipe I thought was an interesting idea.
     
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  2. Sentinel2

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    I wouldn't worry about it quite yet. it was an idea tossed out there. Not a path we're definitely going down according to Chris in that livestream.
     
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  3. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    Don't do anything that resembles a wipe, soft or hard.

    Aside from making quests/story for Ep. 2, consider doing a couple of things to make the overall game better:
    • More mob variation (make this spillover to Novia/Hidden Vale by reworking some of the lower level areas and making them mid-range (Tier 3/4/5 into Tier 6/7/8 - there is a DEARTH in that tier level));
    • Full "raid" zones with group-oriented/harder content (to satiate the higher level players);
    • Mechanics to foster player-run events: additional mechanics for player-made dungeons (don't give up on this idea); mechanics for PvP; mechanics for player-run quests (inside and outside player-made dungeons); mechanics to keep players busy (crafting tasks, mission tasks (PvE); and
    • Fix bugs from Ep. 1.
    I know it's easy to be an "armchair developer" @Chris, but keeping players happy and giving them things to do is what keeps people playing. One of the things that's probably hard for you as a developer, and for us as players, is trying to figure out what's going to happen with all the work we've already put in to making a character that's part of the world. Keeping it simple, and making something that player's will look forward to cannot be a bad thing!

    Allowing players to keep their progress might be a challenging task when you have to consider the "how" of transitioning to Ep. 2. A separate story is fine. The challenge lies in getting all the high-level players there. By providing them content as well as fashioning an interesting story does not have to mean any form of wipe. You all have created a great world/story, and I know if you keep up the hard work that we'll all get there together.

    EDIT:

    To add to things:
    • Flesh out crafting, put in higher-tier mats, and create more unique and difficult to acquire and craft recipes;
    • I know the budget may not call for it, but consider getting someone who can run events for players; and
    • Piggy-backing on the "more mobs" request, consider more varied encounters in the Overworld - I recall one time the Devs plopped down dragons and other mobs (I think it was a daemon) on the Overworld. Making the roads/world more dangerous and populated with random mobs wherein we can go in and "encounter" them makes for a very fun world, indeed!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  4. SmokerKGB

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    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/391407762

    At approx 42:10 3/9/2019 Live stream...

    OK, I understand what they're trying to do now... It still seems crazy, but only on the new continent will you be starting over, as a ghost, recreating your character to go forwards... I'm not sure how they will do this, but I'm assuming that my chr will return to eps 1 state when returning to the old continent (where I live)... Mmmm, will I be able to change my gender? my hair style? all my features?

    For me it just means that the new continent will be off limits for a long time... To me, it seems like building 2 chrs at the same time, one will only advance in the new lands, where the other in the old lands, but both will advance... The old exp gained will continue as x2 exp in the new lands (seems like a computing nightmare to me)...

    I sincerely hope, that new players will be forced to start in the old lands, before advancing to the new lands.... At each eps break...

    The example Chris used was WoW and how they kept raising the bar with each expansion, 1st it was level 60, then 70, then 80... As I remember, the new content did appear in the old lands, like mounts, flying machines, and I was barred from entering the new lands as I didn't have the level...

    I hope they release more info...
     
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  5. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    I guess it's time to mention the guy from page 4 or 5 that said this is all undue drama and who got screamed at :rolleyes:
     
  6. Hemswal The Descended

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    Yeah, there is talk all around about the soft wipe. Been seeing it in several discord servers too. I've seen almost no one on board with a forced soft wipe.

    Having an incentivized reborn system in place as an option isn't a bad idea though.
     
  7. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Im not a fan of scaling like WoW does. It makes old landmasses into ghost towns and eliminates the potential for meaningful exploration in those areas.

    Its the main thing that made me not play WoW. Brother invited me to play but i couldnt play with hiM and his friends until i leveled through all the content first.

    I like the idea of new area, new character better than Wow-style scaling.

    But new land-new game is not looking ideal to most people so i think id Much rather it just be areas of different difficulties low and high just like episode 1.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  8. majoria70

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    Yes I'm sorry for the regret of many players. I still feel this game can turn around. It may not be what our minds pictured but perhaps better one day. All the feedback from this post can be considered and we can move forward. So many of the quality of life and game decisions are making this a better game to play and if you know me I am still waiting for some basics that are still needed and imo not just needed but required to give this game longevity. I still feel that Chris was just talking and getting our reactions and the feedback will be of importance to him and the team. I don't try to convince players to come back yet. The things my friends want don't yet exist. So I keep rallying for them.
     
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  9. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Wow doesnt scale. That's why you could not play with him.
     
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  10. Mugly Wumple

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    18 pages of comments, and people think that announcing the idea of a Soft Reset was a bad idea? Portalarium has always listened to players and often changed plans as a result. I expect they are finding much of this discussion quite valuable.
     
  11. Gorthyn

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    Not really as it's still all as clear as mud what will happen and how it will effect those who still play the game. Clearly the Devs don't really know yet either so Chris chucking out that comment in an interview was perhaps not the best of moves.

    Also the issues with the game that lead to these convoluted attempts to patch over them remain undiminished and with no suggestion that they are going to be addressed properly.
     
  12. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    I'd rather have their thoughts now, rather then when it is more problematic to change their mindset.
     
  13. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Oh i don't disagree about that at all. I actually fully agree.
    What i disagree about is the needlessly fanned rage. We are all adults. We should be able to discuss in a resonable way.
     
  14. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    I agree.... and Chris needs to make it known that he has at least read this thread so we know he is aware of our concerns.
     
  15. CarlNZ

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    If it's not scaled, then new players need to be able to have boosted characters, with very high adventure levels, many GM's and high crafting skills as their starter in order to allow the episode to be stand alone. There isn't the population to spread across the old and new lands. Forcing new players to level through episode one while it's utterly deserted compared to its current fairly deserted state is basically asking those new players to just quit.
     
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  16. Nevyn Waldail

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    If episode 2 is to be stand alone then that's fine, I'll play episode 1 until I find a proper MMO to play.
     
  17. Gorthyn

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    Agreed again ! :D
     
  18. Astirian

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    I still think it can be both an accomplished single-player and multi-player game. And I think so does Port, why else would we be getting a quest overhaul and equippable NPCs come episode 2? :)
     
  19. rebbieforever

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    I dont think the problem with new players is that much about catching up really, I started myself playing a bit over 4 months ago. New players got more problems at general polish of the game and general bugs of the early content. For example when I started I noticed one of the 3 starting scenes(not outskirts) didnt even have a map - I think it was the path of love one and during the tutorial a quest even though completed it wouldnt go from my quest log but disappeared after I passed to novia somehow. Add to this that in general mmo players arent too used on long loading times and go compare "this doesnt have better graphs than ESO, why it loads so slow" and "this doesnt have better graphs than ESO, how I can run ESO with ease on 8gb and not this". What I am trying to tell is new players care more about optimization and polish, than how fast they will catch up at this point since this isnt Everquest 1 with 10+ expansions.

    Also mmo players arent like single players of ultima - from what I understand the team is more experienced with single player games, so Chris said they will do it like Ultimas, but your right Ultima reference should be Ultima online that never done a wipe. MMO players dont go just for a playthrough like single player Ultimas and instead they value persistence. If persistence isnt there they play a while and leave when they start to get bored working from scratch. Part of what makes a mmo is building a "home" into a Virtual World and letting your created Avatar live and grow within it.

    If for database limitations or anything they need to do resets they should only reset adventurer level via for example a rebirth with incentive like I mentioned earlier. They shouldnt touch anything needing huge effort and cash or the game may start bleeding players
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  20. kaeshiva

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    Personally, I think a lot of us who have invested thousand and thousands of hours developing our characters in Episode 1, need to know, sooner rather than later, whether or not we've just wasted our time for the last two years as that will certainly affect decisions on whether or not more effort / money is going to be invested.

    A soft wipe, even a soft wipe where I kept my entire pools intact, is a complete non-starter. I've spent over 10k hours in this game, I refuse to spend another 5k (assuming this "double" thing) simply to get back where I am now. Its a ludicrous idea.

    "Level-capping" scenes and scaling them is equally bad. Its saying, yes you invested all this time to use your character, but you can't use what you've earned. Making the time investment equally pointless.

    The MMORPG is about progression, that's how you retain players. Once players start hitting caps, they start moving on, that's the nature of the industry.
    Sota's saving grace has been the lack of caps, and while this makes content balance difficult, it keeps players logging in and doing stuff since there is a net gain from it.

    Games that have lasted 10, 15 years are the ones that either have extremely slow progression (or very high, nigh unreachable caps, or no caps) but player time investment has meaning. Either this, or they have regular expansion content to raise the limits and do so often enough that players don't lose interest in the interim, and enough achievement/lateral/sidequest content to keep folks busy. Expansion content should be just that - augmentations to the base game. You don't wipe the players and go for "round 2." (and, 3, and 4, and 5). Otherwise we may as well just say the game's not persistent until after Episode 5 is done and then plan to come play it then, if its still around.
     
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