The In Game Theater system brainstorm of possible changes

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by Vladamir Begemot, Mar 31, 2019.

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  1. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    During the livestream @Chris mentioned that the theater system doesn't quite make sense anymore, as out sandbox actually outgrew it. But they want to come up with new cool things to replace the things that are out, so this is a brainstorm thread for that. Because it includes more than fits into any one category, I put it in Wishlists.

    I'd like to summon our thespians by summoning @Asclepius to do further summoning.

    Despite not having been in a play, we did put on a Circus a while ago, and many of my ideas come from that experience. It is a stage performance so I think it fits.

    This is a brainstorm thread, don't tear anyone's ideas down, just add your own. Bullet points and small succinct thoughts are a great way for devs to be able to scan it.

    First, a question for Asclepius. I wasn't at yesterdays performance because we're on a trip, but I was at the previous one. Have you figured out a way to get voices to line up with actions?
    • If not, that will be my first bullet point. Maybe outside of Ports influence, but worth thinking about.
    • Emote system upgrades (side benefit for anything that uses emotes!)
      • Sync - It's really hard to get the backup dancers all on the right frame, we need to sync them like music
      • Loop flag. Shadowboxing as an example, it isn't very useful for them to stop repeatedly if we need an action to continue
        • /shadowbox -loop
      • Silence noisy emotes flag. Want singing in your play? The SFX is probably not needed or wanted.
        • /sing -silent
        • /cheer -loop -silent (for when you want to add the crowd roar in manually)
      • String emotes in a series, with optional pause times. I have heard this might exist, if so, great.
        • Should work with /sync
      • Upper body emotes can be done while walking
    • The stage
      • Player defined area, we use tables, stages, bare land. Lay down like a grass remover.
      • Can save the items on the stage to a "set"
        • Sets can be swapped out like decks. Example: Act 1 is over, click the Act 2 deck, all Act 1 props go to a linked storage and Act 2 props appear
      • If they fit without hitting the roof, allow outdoor and POT deco on the stage, so we can have a wind power generator on the stage, for instance
      • Limited PvP. Right now a dual is the only safe way to kill someone on stage, but what if it's supposed to be a brawl? Designated Avatars can PvP on stage, others trying to interfere cannot
    • Visible movement of items. This will improve the entire sandbox, but be very useful on stage as well
      • This means the Prop Master would move items on the stage like you normally do in deco mode, but instead of it vanishing and reappearing in the new spot, it would be visibly moving as he "dragged it" (from afar) to it's new location. Or an actor would move a prop.
        • If that can't work, setting the new location and have the game create the movement
        • The benefit to other performances could best be envisioned by thinking of the Ordinis Mortis parade. The floats would visibly move rather than popping to their new location.
    • Cameras
      • Remote cameras so we can stream and record without having to have the avatars physically standing there. I say use the watchers but however it is done there are many benefits:
        • Higher viewpoints
        • Switching between cameras provides for better production quality
        • Lets us set up in a way that gets the action without the danger of Avatars walking into view
    Ok, those are my ideas. Every one of them has sandbox wide benefits, but would have also enhanced my ability to put on the Circus, and I imagine would enhance a theater performance.

    What are your great ideas?
     
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  2. Titania Xylia

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    [​IMG]

    I'm excited about the possibilities.
     
  3. Alioth

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    Great ideas! I remember helping @majoria70 work on prototyping a stage, and I kept wanting there to be a nicer material to work with instead of the somewhat rugged stage that exists. We tried a few options like lots of gothic tables, but this made placement of larger items like the grand piano difficult or impossible. More platform options in general that can be used for theater stage or just general building purposes would be great.
     
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  4. Bowen Bloodgood

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    First off kudos on the OP. Back in the early days when systems weren't 'even designed yet', threads like this are how player ideas heavily influenced how systems were designed.. ie crafting.. It's the players who took initiative at the right times to post their ideas and made a big impact. So it's nice to see a post like this again in direct response to a dev comment in a livestream.

    Ok on to ideas.

    Control/Activation objects & fx spawners.

    Have an object that when used you can link (or unlink) to interactable items on the lot, such that when activated activates anything it's linked to. Being able to link to X number of objects.

    FX spawners could play sound or vfx. These could work similar to phonographs and such that already can store and play back audio.

    Include a simple scripting system that can activate objects on the lot by name or object ID with timed delay.. Script could be attached to a control object such that it would be possible to design a complex arrangement of scripts and objects.

    Script could activate based on manual, conditional or voice command?

    Tie in a little control of NPCs so you can have NPCs bark & emote on demand.

    All of which could be useful in player quests and/or dungeons as well as plays.
     
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  5. Vladamir Begemot

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    @Titania Xylia those guys were my favorite muppets. And the Eagle. And Eeyore in Winnie the Pooh. And Oscar the Grouch.... I'm starting to see a theme.

    @Alioth good point on the object placement. Yes I see the need for a bigger better looking stage now.

    @Bowen Bloodgood great! Turning up/down all the house lights at once would be an obvious use for those systems!
     
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  6. craftymethod

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    • Remote camera idea would be pretty funny if we could somehow hijack a watcher or the like and use them as a drone if there is a flying version. Would be very handy for film makers too.
    • recording and playing back actions and emotes would be handy so as to ensure perfect execution. kinda like the UO days of macroing? Could be abuse issues and would need to be restricted, but if it can be done for a theatre space, it could help with tech to command NPC's around in the future that are on your lot talking and acting out different tasks.
    • Allowing the performers to output a VOIP stream in game would be cool, else output to a device which can restream it. Perhaps even record? have an atm like object that could cut copies of say an audio performance? (podcasting ingame!)



     
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  7. oplek

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    I'll admit that I don't know what the "theater system" is. Is this something that exists, or something they were planning on getting around to?
     
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  8. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Planning. It's in the updated quaterly schedule.
     
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  9. Vladamir Begemot

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    It was one of the original Kickstarter funded goals:
    • A new City Center Theater building
    • Rentable by an individual or group for a performance
    • Only approved individuals may enter backstage
    • Players must pay to enter the seating areas
    • Viewers may only emote, such as claps. (Claps are tracked to "rate" the performance).
    • Money goes to performers for their performance
    • Also useable for weddings and other events
    • We add a full compliment of "Masks" and "Costumes" for use at various events
    Most of that is already done. I was getting bombarded when the livestream was happening so I am not sure which they are thinking they will replace.

    Masks and costumes is done, hopefully pay gating areas is still on the plan as it can be used for all sorts of things, clap tracking is kind of dumb (if we're rating stuff, lets give actual ratings rather than trying to guess based of emotes, then that can be used for dungeons and vendors as well), it would be nice to have another city building, making any building rentable or usable for weddings is done (although automated rents would have been great before deeds went free) by the nature of "hey can I rent your building?" Same goes for paying the actors. Gating off areas works already if there is a door that can be locked.
     
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  10. Trevour

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    Many of these ideas would also be useful in a dungeon. Vfx scripting, even the remote camera. Imagine walking into boss room, sparks, fames, smoke and you camera does a fly by the room to a close up on the boss. That is a much improved experience for dungeons.

    Great ideas. Build your theater, just share your toys so I can build my dungeon.
     
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  11. Aartemis

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    Chris was on a Stream a while back and the topic came up of being able to watch other players going through your dungeons. Chris brought up the Final Oracle Room with all the Screens and mentioned the Multiple Cameras would not be that hard, and it might be cool to create a DungeonMaster room from the Oracle Room decos that allows the Creator to sit and watch all the crazy going on below. I think the only caviot would be the player would have to be able to opt-in to "being watched" or so it could be restreamed...
     
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  12. Vladamir Begemot

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    Hmmmm I hadn't thought of taking the players view for an intro. Interesting idea. What I was meaning was the crew (or dungeon master) would have the ability to switch between cameras.

    UT wny not let the players too? I still believe that letting us have a drone out in the wild would go a long way toward machinima movies. More power!
     
  13. Hazard

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    Good ideas. How do you see the visual of the proposed stage swap occurring? Lights turn down, swap? Curtain closes/reopens? Instant swap? Props explode into flames, replaced by new? All of the above? Hopefully this wouldn't be a new load screen.

    Ticket window automaton/NPC (optional) - collects minimal fee or gives an event personalized ticket stub to avatar to enter event. Could mail all proceeds to owner once toggled rather than spamming their mailbox with separate entrant purchases (or do people ever charge for entry?). Possibly could also be used as a limiter on venue capacity which could potentially work for dungeon or quest events (e.g. first 10 who solve clue elsewhere and find dungeon get inside with special object or keyword perhaps, after which all else are barred for duration of event).

    I could see some tools or camera views interchangeably used for arenas, dungeon areas, or maybe even something like dance halls- all potentially theater of sorts for varying player types.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  14. Widsith [MGT]

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    Lighting systems. Unity already has a complex lighting model, so you can come up with all the usual stage systems simply by embodying the features as objects - floods, key lights, pin spots, the whole nine yards. (The handheld lanterns show this isn't hard.) Then tie it into an event system as suggested above, or a physical 'board' and there you go. (Applications for dynamic lighting in a dungeon left as an exercise to the reader...)
     
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  15. Spoon

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    From my old "Theater" notes:


    the executive summary list ( tl;dr)

    Tipping
    (Tip through avatar right click sending gold mail)

    Alms box
    (doubleclick to donate gold to owner through gold mail)

    Emotes as glyphs
    (social deck building)

    Deco Emotes
    (Trigger emote from decoration asset)

    Event Package
    (temporary members Group, with chat, tickets and access permissions)



    the slightly longer version


    For each header please find use case examples below the bullet summary. Most are stolen ideas, with my twist on them.

    Please note that most of these suggstions ties into existing game mechanics or features, this so that one can reuse existing instead of creating stuff from scratch.
    Also please note that I have them in iteration steps so that one can do a small effort to get it in one release and then in later releases increase the functionality iteratively. So each feature should function as a 'bare minimum' which can be expanded if players like it or ignored if they don't.

    • Tip through avatar right click
      • First iteration:
        Add "Tip" to avatar right click in all the same interfaces that "Trade" is in, which checks if the giver has 100+g and if so a small confirmation window pops up with "Do you want to tip 100g?" Yes/Cancel, which on Yes sends an in-game-mail with the 100g (-5g goldsink)
      • Second iteration:
        Add "Tip" to nametag right click in all the same interfaces that "Whisper" is in, with the same tip behavior as above, but now it can be used across scenes.
      • Third iteration:
        When doing "Tip" as above, in the Yes/Cancel popup, add a "Gold" button, with a slider of how much gold to tip (like the send mail gold slider), which creates and in-game-mail sending that gold amount as the tip. (-5g goldsink)
    • Alms box (doubleclick to donate gold to owner)
      • First iteration:
        create an "Alms box / Donation box" deco asset (crown store), which when doubleclicked a small "Donate" confirmation window pops up with "Do you want to donate 100g?" Yes/Cancel, which on Yes sends an in-game-mail with the 100g to the owner of the lot (-5g goldsink)
      • Second iteration:
        When doing "Donate" as above, in the Yes/Cancel popup, add a "Gold" button, with a slider of how much gold to donate (like the send mail gold slider), which creates and in-game-mail sending that gold amount as the donation (-5g goldsink)
      • Third iteration:
        When doing "Donate" as above, in the Yes/Cancel popup, add the sum as a dropdown 10>100>1000>10000, which is default at 100 but which you can drop down any other standard amount.
      • Fourth iteration:
        If the "Alms box" is marked as "Private" or "Tenant" the donation is sent to the owner of the box instead of lot owner.
    • Emotes as glyphs (social deck building)
      • First iteration:
        Drag emote to hotbar and decks just like any other skill (from "O" emote window to bar or to "Y" deck building)
        Yes just like any skill it could also be added as "random draw" in a deck.
      • Second iteration:
        Only for "Locked slots", drag the "custom" emote glyph to locked slot, get txt prompt for message to be executed when triggered. (this so that you can have dialog+emote using the /emote command in locked slots)
    • Deco Emotes (Trigger emote from decoration asset)
      • First iteration
        Create some decoration assets for the crown store, which when the player doubleclicks the asset they execute an emote. These assets counts as "container" without being one to restrict their numbers on a lot. Where they counts as "in use by other user" for X amount of time, where X matches the emote length even if aborted. (To prevent multiple users at once)
      • Second iteration
        Create decoration assets for the crown store, where the permission owner can right click to add an emote from their own emote list (or at least the 'teachable' part), which when players trigger the decoration asset - they perform the emote
    • Event Package (temporary members Group, with chat, tickets and access permissions)
      • First iteration - Member group with chat
        being able to buy a "temporary group package, daily" from Guild NPC (for igg) which includes a smaller subset of guild functionality (leader, invite/kick member, group chat)
        When you doubleclick the package item in inventory, you get a name prompt with Confirm/Cancel where if Confirm the package is consumed. The name of the group becomes (GUID) Number+Name. The player becomes leader of the group and can add/kick members, and members have a /g# members chat (so if I got group number 123, the command /g123 takes me to that member chat).
        After 24h the member group expires and the group itself is deleted with the Number+Name going back to the pool.
      • Second iteration - Officers and Hush command
        add to the iteration above, group "Officers" and a /g# hush_on and a /g# hush_off command. During "hush_on" only the leader and officers can talk in chat, while members can only listen.
      • Third iteration - Member group tax
        add a daily gold cost (copy from village lot tax) that the leader can spend to keep the member group from expiring.
      • Fourth iteration - Sorted with members
        When you get sorted into scenes, you get sorted with members first.
        Individual players have a small UI, cog in the friends window, where they can prio different groups and tick a checkbox to not be sorted with that member group. Where the default is First-In.
      • Fifth iteration
        being able to buy an "event ticket package - 20 pack" in the crown store (10 crowns for 20 seems a good small number, which over time should still generate revenue).
        When you doubleclick the package, you get a pop-up UI with a list of the member groups you are the leader of and a prompt with Confirm/Cancel where if you select a member group plus Confirm the package is consumed.
        You then get 20 tickets with "Membership Invite for Number+Name".
        These when used gives the Invite prompt Confirm/Cancel, where if Confirm consumes the ticket and adds you to the group# as a member, you also get a paper item to inventory with the text "Ticket Stub for GroupName, NovianDate#"
        These tickets can then be used as any item, sent in-game-mail, or put on a vendor etc.
        Also add a tooltip on the item which says the expiry date of the member group, or EXPIRED if passed so that one knows how long they should be valid.
      • Sixth iteration
        Just like you can set a lot access to be "Guild Chapter house" add functionality so that you can set a member group as "Member only house" using the GUID number. This "Locks" the property to members only, and sets it to "Tenant" status.
        Where the inherited permissions are one less than for guilds. Leader=trustee, officer=kindred, member=guest.

    Tipping (through avatar right click)

    Imagine you are in the audience of that grand theater play, or you just walked into someone playing a tune you like on their lute, or you ask a question and someone helps you out.
    Then to say a little thank you is just a right click on their avatar or nametag and select "Tip" and you can send them a default Tip in-game-mail with some gold.

    Then Imagine the even grander thing on the other end.
    Say you are doing a performance like theater or playing a tune, and suddenly you see that "you've got mail" symbol - plus its stark ticking up in numbers. Then after the performance going to the mailbox and see the list of everyone who sent you a tip.
    -That would be a grand feeling.
    You could even send fan mail back to the largest tippers, with a pamphlet or something.

    Or what if someone asks for help in chat, you help them out/answer their question, and then suddenly 'pling you've got mail with a Tip. Since they could in chat right click your nametag and "Tip" you for being a nice person.
    That creates a great user story and also a enforces positive community behavior.



    Donation (through "Alms box" decoration asset)

    Imagine you visit a permanent event, or a just spectacularly decorated lot, or attanded the party or guild meeting.
    Then you note the Alms box and right there you can send a Donation of gold for the experience.



    Social deck building (Emotes as glyphs)

    Imagine being able to create a deck for a specific performance, or a "guild meeting deck" or just a "Dance Party deck".
    So you are out there adventuring and question, and you have some social events coming up, you rift to their zone and then
    A) right before going on stage for your Theater performance you simply switch to your "Macbeth" deck which you have prepared the night before during rehearsal.
    Slot 1 through 7 all have specific emotes in the exact order you need them, "evil eye", "blood rain" "giggle", "hiss" "rain spiders" "scare" "scowl", the 8 9 0 have random draw of good to have improvisation.
    B) when the performance is over and you have collected all the free tomates, then start attending the guilds session with your "Guild Meeting" deck,
    locked in the hotbar slots you now have 1 "cheer" 2 "boo" 3 "pontificate" 4 "nod" 5 "point" 6 "tableflip" etc
    C) then right after that finishes you all rush over to the release party and you select your "Party deck".
    Where some are locked 1-5 for your favorites like cheer, curtsey, waltz etc, but then in 6-7 you have random draw of all the dances so you can improvise some moves when they slot in, then 8 random draw of some magic tricks and firework displays, then 9 locked for "timerift" and 0 locked for "zombie" when the respective songs inevitably comes along.



    Decoration asset triggering emote

    Imagine you attend theater premier for Macbeth where there is a boiling couldron on stage and when each performer goes up to it they start cackling (giggling emote) and then stir the pot (cooking crafting emote).


    Or a feast where there is a fruit plate / roasted pig / desert table which when activated your avatar makes an emote of taking a piece (loot emote) and eating it (eat emote) with appropriate message in chat.

    Or going up to a gravestone which when activated your avatar pays their respect (kneel emote) - just like the painter's grave in Soltown Outskirts.

    Or a "Devotional virtue shrine" which when activated your avatar does the "LBSalute" emote or the "Devotional Chaos shrine" with the "random/chicken" emote, or the "Devotional obsidian shrine" with the "beg" emote.

    Then after all that imagine an "emote rug" (no stack on top), which if you trigger it, the avatar will perform whichever emote that the decorating player assigned to it (from their list).
    So as the decorator I can place the "emote rug" in front of a mirror and add the "cringe" emote.

    Or again for the theater play above, one can place "emote rug"s in good locations to trigger emotes when in those specific locations (so the director can be happy).
    Like romeo and juliet triggering a die dramatically emote.




    Event Package (temporary Group, with chat, tickets and access permissions)

    Since this one is a bit tricky I want to show the value of each iteration step.

    Please note that it all relies on being able for each player to join just 1 guild, but also simultaneously any number of temporary member groups.

    1. Member group with chat.
      Say that I want to set up a show and take a fee for attending said event. In the posters and such for the event I ask that attendees send Xg over in-game-mail to me.
      So on the event day, I buy that "temporary group package, daily", and consume it. I become leader, and then I check my mails and invite all performers and attendees into the member group.
      I can now start chatting with all members (invite approved), and say stuff like "3h to showtime, remember we are in showtown, come early and inebriated".
      Then when the show starts the dialog and the instructions can all be in members only chat.
    2. Officers and Hush command
      With this iteration, you can promote your performers and helpers as "officers" in the members group.
      Then when the Hush-ON command is on only the performers (leader+officers) can write in chat, while the audience (members) can still get the messages but not respond. Until after the show is finished and with the Hush-OFF command, you again enable the audience to comment and chat.
    3. Member group tax
      With this iteration the leader can extend the days before the group expires. This is both a gold sink, but also a way to be able to plan for things in advance, or to keep something good going a bit more.
    4. Sorted with members
      the most obvious usecase is for shows, where you want the audience members to sort with the performers.
      But imagine you have a PvP event, then sorting with the other members of that PvP event would very much increase the fun and the opportunity to battle.
    5. Membership Tickets
      Please note that yes, this can be abused and used in trolling. But much less so than already existing tenant permission system. So should be the same as all the other such systems leading to Reports.
      However the potential sandbox opportunities given by membership invite tickets is enormous.
      Not only could you sell tickets in advance to a show or performance, but it also enables events where you need to restrict attendance. It also enables things like members only clubs.
    6. Members only charter house
      Now we are talking big sandbox possibilities.
      Being able to sell theater event tickets, which includes membership and also lets you in through the door - all without much administration - now we are talking.
      But it is so much more potential for player opportunities.
      Having shady members only clubs in peoples dungeons.
      Having crafting clubs with access to stations and chests with tools / assets.
      Setting up a cooperative business for members, like having a free event with lots of traffic and then selling tickets to access listing items on the vendors.
      Using the tickets to set up automated payment for Tenants or even renting out whole properties using tickets.
      etc etc

    If you have read through all of this and say your in game name next to "Spoon that was indeed a massive wall of text" I will send you your free cookie through in-game-mail.
     
  16. Spoon

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    A not so good workaround used to be to use the /emote even for dialog, but I haven't tested that in at least a year so it could be broken as well.
     
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  17. Asclepius

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    Hi, sorry for the late reply. We have been working on the sync issue, it is complex.
    As you may be aware, if a soundtrack is broadcast over Avatars Radio, this is a streaming service. The vagaries of the internet ensure that it hits individual listeners at varying times - there can be up to and above 30 seconds difference. The person sitting next to you will catch the audio before you will, simply because they are in a different part of the world.
    So, ideas...

    1) Each actor listens to Avatars Radio and takes their cue from that. Totally bad, for the reasons above. Guaranteed to cause disruption.
    2) Each actor has his/her own copy of the audio file. One person is designated the starter, and listens out for the cue from the radio, then shouts "Play!" over Discord. Whereupon all actors hit the play button of their files, we are fairly well in sync. Good in theory, but I was the starter for our first performance this time, and I heard the stream quite a lot AFTER Amber, who was videoing the performance. The text was woefully behind the soundtrack. After some post-production editing, the video looks more respectable - here.
    3) There is a bot - Rhythm - which will play audio across Discord, and as Discord has no lag it seemed a good option. We tried that at he last outing. The theory is - someone reasonably close geographically to the AR server waits for the cue, shouts "Play" over Discord, and the server master kickstarts the bot - so all the cast get the soundtrack at the same time. I believe we had no end of trouble with it (teething issues) but it has promise.
    4) It has been suggested that all the audience be invited to the voice channel of the Discord server we are using. No lag, bypasses Avatars Radio entirely. Have not tried this yet, it may be an option for the future.
     
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  18. Vladamir Begemot

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    Thanks for the update.

    How about some thoughts on non-voice related goodies that would make your future performances better, easier, or whatever?

    Oh and can you bring the other Thespians here?
     
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