Global auction/market search discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by golruul, May 14, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

    Messages:
    2,853
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Since I can't see it, i'll impart some information from Chris. It is still under discussion and may have been discussed at their team meeting/lunch that is today.

    Chris was asked this question in his morning dev time stream (no arguments about how people get information, save that for a different thread). He discusses a bunch of different topics about global searches, auctions, etc.

    His answer (at about 1:48:00 or so (and is about 8 minutes long) can be summarized as:

    1) He likes vendor towns and would prefer they don't go away.
    2) if it is an auction style house, he sees it as for public vendors only. So all the vendors would be linked together. with an extra charge for private vendors. There would be a cost for this function. (His pitch for it was this idea.)
    3) He likes the idea of global search for private vendors (maybe all vendors), but you'd have to walk to the town to buy something. (He likes this idea ans some tech was added recently that could make this happen.)
    4) Nothing stated about what information would be displayed in search results.
    5) He talks a bunch about global search issues (sheer number of items on vendors, number of transactions, different search methods and issues, etc.)
    6) He mentions that prices are proably to be included in the serarh results. (itw sort of mentioned in passing, so they may or may not be included)
     
    Spinok, Cordelayne, Time Lord and 4 others like this.
  2. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,293
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I like this idea too.
     
    Spinok and Cordelayne like this.
  3. oplek

    oplek Avatar

    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    3,017
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I could live with that. I don't mind walking to towns... or even walking into a town to do a local search... maybe (maybe if you could do the search *before* entering the town, like you can get some top-level information from the overworld)
     
    Cordelayne and Astirian like this.
  4. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    6,194
    Likes Received:
    12,076
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Advertising works!
     
    Alioth and Alleine Dragonfyre like this.
  5. Scanphor

    Scanphor Avatar

    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    977
    Trophy Points:
    63
    That's a compromise I could live with tbh
     
  6. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    6,194
    Likes Received:
    12,076
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Wow, 100,000 items being bought/sold every day!
     
    Time Lord and Oracle Watcher like this.
  7. Spungwa

    Spungwa Avatar

    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Trophy Points:
    93
    What Jiirc reported sounds like they are considering the impacts. Now they give everyone a lot, i'm not sure public vendors are even worthwhile to continue with and maintain, but that is their choice.

    I just hope they have the same for selling something to a buy order. Not always the best way to make gold (as buy orders tend to be under priced to true value), but selling to buy orders can be a good way for new players to get some gold without being ripped off entirely, or selling those beetle carapaces to the vendor because they don't know better and want gold now.....


    Regards
    Spung
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    Astirian likes this.
  8. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    8,336
    Likes Received:
    28,405
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    Well, right now I need;

    1 Ardoris Priestess Head Piece
    1 Ardoris Priestess Robe


    :rolleyes: Both of those with some added cloth armor buff is a must o_O but I don't even know if either of those are possible, or...

    :eek: "Where the H#LL I could even find them even if they are possible" :confused:

    So a global auction or vendor locator would do me quite well and save our forums from allot of un-needed Time Lord spam ;)

    I would also be interested in 2 Ornate Oracle Hammer with some sort of (+) Buff
    [​IMG]
    So how is any of this all suppose to help out an average player like me o_O?
    The ~Tooth Fairy~:D
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    Amelli and Cordelayne like this.
  9. golruul

    golruul Avatar

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I see several people argue along the lines that "this would eliminate the trader profession". No, it won't. Here's a concrete example of why:

    An item is listed for 10k on global auction house. Someone buys it. Let's say 50% (5k) go to auction fees as a gold sink (the economy needs the high fee sink part) and the seller gets 5k. Buyer obviously loses 10k to buy the item.

    Instead, the seller can list it at his personal vendor for 7.5k (or list it on forums/marketplace/trade chat/etc). Then, just like today, the buyer can come along and buy it for 7.5k. Seller gets more money, buyer spends less. Everyone's happy except the gougers. So if you want the best deal, you can continue to do as you're doing today and go search for good deals.

    Most importantly, the vast majority of people are happy to not have to spend hours fruitlessly searching for an item and can get back to playing the game.
     
    Beralith, Astirian, Spinok and 3 others like this.
  10. Alleine Dragonfyre

    Alleine Dragonfyre Avatar

    Messages:
    1,750
    Likes Received:
    4,695
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Immortal City
    Don't test me. I WILL BUY GOLD to bury someone first to monopolize the market. I'll do it repeatedly, multiple times a day, if I have to until that person decides to give up. 9/10 they get frustrated seeing their own stuff being sold, especially if I sell at a loss at first. I'll keep coming, even will create new mule chars just to do so if you think banning me will work. It won't. Eventually, anyone left is just basically wholesaling for me because I'll be controlling the price and there won't be a damn thing you can do about it.

    It'll pay off in the end, even if it's just to "win" the market for whatever I've chosen to monopolize. I don't have to buy up every last whatever I choose to monopolize. Just enough to make it so my customers know there is a constant supply that cannot be found anywhere else easily.

    I don't think you understand what RMT people are actually doing/spending in this game.
    I also don't think you understand how easy it can be done, especially with your roadmap.

    Again, I won't play if it comes to that. But there are a lot of people already doing so in other ways. What I've described above is exactly what some guilds plan on doing if the game ever takes off. That. Is. Their. Actual. Plan. And they've been stockpiling gold to do it.

    Last time I logged in I had 75 mail, every single one with 1000's of gold in it. You know why?

    I advertise in the Trade Channel on Discord. I announce and have sales (BOGO, holiday themes, giveaways, etc) on the regular and announce them in Trade Chat. I have a forum thread here I post to. I do cross-promotions with other businesses. I ask streamers to mention my vendors. Etc.

    Placing a shop vendor down and doing NOTHING else and expecting people to come will disappoint every time, in game and in RL. No one in this game has very many unique things to offer. How you promote your vendor is the single thing, above all else, that will effect your sales. If you don't promote your vendor, you're gonna have stagnation.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Newsflash on Auction Houses Listing Prices: If you list prices in an auction house, everyone will just undercut everyone else. You will log in and find the price you set, which was the lowest 12 hours before, is now not the lowest. You have two choices then: wait to see if the cheapest gets sold and then yours will sell. That never happens. The other choice, which you will do because now you're desperate to sell, is to undercut the under-cutter. Now that your stuff is SUPER cheap, someone will undercut you again. If not, I will come along and buy ALL OF IT. I will keep doing it until I have a monopoly.

    A lot of people do this. Some folks, thats ALL they do in these games. Add unrestricted RMT of gold like we have here in SotA and you have yourself a serious problem with your MMO economy.

    This will continue, for all items. I've seen it in every game that has an auction house. It will happen here too.

    I think it's sad that people can't see past their own noses on this one and that their lack of effort means we have to fundamentally change the economy for them.

    But hey, don't take the word of someone that's given you the answer to your problems AND can tell you, from experience, what will definitely happen in these scenarios.

    @Chris and @DarkStarr seriously, this will not work. Please listen to those of us that have seen this happen before. If you implement this, these same people are going to come back at you and complain of "griefing" when they're getting undercut and/or bought out.

    Just don't go there to begin with.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  11. CICI

    CICI Avatar

    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    849
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Town market search! be cool NOT Global

    I Flip Real Estate =) @Vladamir Begemot
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    Alleine Dragonfyre likes this.
  12. Spinok

    Spinok Avatar

    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Very well said. Also as you said before this is the market pvp. So guy who want a monopoly can think that he is a hunter, but later he can understand that he is a victim...
     
    Beralith likes this.
  13. golruul

    golruul Avatar

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Seems like the new argument against global auction house is that it will further enhance monopolies. You know what? That's actually fine with me. If XYZ stays logged in 24/7 and keeps buying every single item and flipping it for 10x cost, I can quickly browse the market, see the 10x prices, and decide I don't want the item. Then I go back to playing the game.

    I just spent over an hour searching through Novia Market and Crafter's Town looking for light unicorn horns. I found 2. You know what I would have preferred? Spend 30 seconds to have a quick look at the global auction house and see 1000 light unicorn horns each selling for 100k because someone wanted a monopoly on those and put all their gold to do so. It would have cost 30 seconds and then I would get back to actually playing the game.

    I know that eventually the price will come down because actual demand (outside of monopoly buying everything up) is near zero while supply is very high.
     
    Beralith, FruityTooty, Amelli and 6 others like this.
  14. Synergy Blaize

    Synergy Blaize Avatar

    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Australia- The Land Down Under
    I have a different perspective (from my own personal habits)
    In UO, when I searched on the Marketplace Global system, I would go & buy that item & then stroll around & look at other Vendors in the area & also look at the surrounding area.
     
  15. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

    Messages:
    8,403
    Likes Received:
    23,554
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    They still happen today so it is just that they would become more common and easier to enforce.


    .
    If that 50% was the actual case then I'd actually be for the auction house.

    Like if they would promise to keep it at 500g+50%tax and never go below. Then only luxury stuff would be listed which would be great and would prevent much of the race to the bottom thingie.

    However that is not the plan as per the info/ideas given by Chris in the livestream.

    Instead he was talking about it being expansion of public vendors (currently 10g+10%). Which isn't nearly enough to offset the scenarios outlined by people above.
    Especially since the idea would be to reuse the existing Public Vendors which meant only traveling to the closest one, thus market footprint would only be for entrance<>public vendor, making POT market towns obsolete since they are not allowed to have public vendors.

    In the scenario outlined by chris which triggered this discussion (don't know if his mind has changed since then) then you wouldn't need to travel at all. Just go to the closest public vendor.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  16. Nevyn Waldail

    Nevyn Waldail Avatar

    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    275
    Trophy Points:
    18
    This race to the bottom is a race to the most reasonable price people are going to sell at, just look at eve.

    Yes margins will reduce but there is nothing wrong with that and if idiots want to sell items at less than they can sell the raw materials for then that's up to them.
     
  17. Synergy Blaize

    Synergy Blaize Avatar

    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Australia- The Land Down Under
    100% NO to this concept!
    I don't even want the cheap teleport to vendor option to get to the vendor.
    I rarely shop anymore...
    I am so sick of ......
    1. Searching for hours for what I am looking for
    2. Seeing over-inflated prices in some well known districts
    3. Not seeing what else is on offer because that would involve a whole week of Town & Vendor hopping.
    4. Wasting my ingame time & coming home empty handed.....
    I only want a system that I can search for what I am after in one place & can see if it is available.
    I want to be able to search by different stats, weapons, armor types.
    I then only want to know....


    1. If the item I seek is available?
    2. Which Town it is in
    3. What the Vendors name is
    4. Then go explore a bit.
    For goodness sake.... lets not make it ridiculously easy & stop us for exploring at all!
     
    Cyin, Amelli, oplek and 1 other person like this.
  18. golruul

    golruul Avatar

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    43
    FYI I pulled 50% out of my rear as an example number. But it does need to be high. We need some kinds of real gold sinks to reduce rampant inflation to just normal inflation.

    I'm actually not worried about the monopolies examples thrown around here (other than COTOs). If someone/guild is throwing all their money to artificially keep prices high on some items, eventually they're going to run out of money buying everything up. Then prices will go down afterwards. I'm absolutely sure this will happen. Whether it'll take a week, month, or a year, it'll eventually happen. You can leverage yourself only so far until you run out of liquidity.

    COTOs is a different story compared to regular items because of its direct link to real money. I'm not sure what to do with that.
     
    Astirian and Amelli like this.
  19. Kabalyero Kidd

    Kabalyero Kidd Avatar

    Messages:
    2,054
    Likes Received:
    5,437
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Location:
    Beran's Reach, Beregost and Whyte Roc
    if they remove item destruction from expired items and just return it to the seller's banks... I think, more people will use the public vendors...
     
  20. Alleine Dragonfyre

    Alleine Dragonfyre Avatar

    Messages:
    1,750
    Likes Received:
    4,695
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Immortal City

    I don't think you realize:

    1) There is a glut of almost everything (meaning a huge supply and low demand) except some raw materials that will become monopolized almost immediately
    2) That glut of stuff (which is almost everything) will become so devalued that, you're right, it will go to zero in price because there are WAY more sellers than buyers because there are only 500 people that play this game.

    Neither of those scenarios can be sustained and will crumble the economy. This game's cornerstone is crafting and vendoring. A ruined economy will shut this game down permanently. Why do you think the guilds that plan on monopolizing have not yet? It's not because they can't. One told me it's because they know it would shut the game down.

    And you know what? You could have just asked around for horns, as this game was designed, like I've said repeatedly, and you would have had as many as you need.

    How many of you think @Lord British would think this is great idea? If you think he would, you're dead wrong.

    That's the most naive thing, besides the blatant laziness and complete lack of any economics education, I've seen in this thread. Most people are not going to want to "market PvP" with their RL bank accounts. And that's what it would take to compete in this game, with an Auction House.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
    Tailz likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.