Clarification of Misinformation - Resistance apply to both PvE and PvP

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jiirc, May 30, 2019.

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  1. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    There was quite a lively discussion today in game chat about warding, resistances, and such. The main question is do they apply to both PvE and PvP.

    On Monday's stream I asked some questions about the new warding skills, attunement, etc. On Tuesday he was pressed for more information. During that stream he gives out a formula that uses damage resist. On Wednesday I asked one more question about whether gem warding was part of the total attunement and resist calculation.

    The bottom line is that resistance calcuations are meant to be done for both pve and pvp. There is miinfomation out there, based on what some believe, that it only applies to pvp. But according to Chris it is meant to apply in both pve and pvp.

    Resistance is the sum of 5 factors: 1) target's attunement / 2, 2) target's warding skill agiant that magic, 3) target's gem warding against that magic skill, 4) target's tactics magic warding skill, 5) target's magic skill resistance (ie. fire proof from the fire skill tree). Those 5 values all contribute to the target's resistance. So in pve, if a mob attack's me with magic, I am the target. And the values from my 5 skills determine the value of the resist and attunement in the damage multiplier calculation.


    So a few notes from Chris's stream.

    1) A formula of sorts that shows how resistances are used in calculations. On this Tuesday's stream Chris shows a damage multiplier formulat (at 1:32:49). The formula is multiplier = mathf.pow(SourceAttunement - TargetResistAndAttunement +110 / 110, .67). Source attunement is the caster's attunement (it wasn't clarified what is included in that calculation, as that wasn't the focus of the discussion). TargetResistAnd Attunement is discussed a bit. It is the target's (the defender's) total resist and attunement calculation from the 5 factors. [The discussion ends at 1:35:30.]

    The discussion starts at around 1:26:00 but that's mostly him just talking while he digs the equation out of code and gets it ready to show on the screen.


    2) His response to the question about pve and pvp OR pvp only is on Monday's stream. The question is asked at 44:43 (in twitch chat). He answers the question at 52:00 in the stream. A short answer that results in him creating a jira for himself.[ends at 54:00]

    There a few other discussions but I haven't found them all.

    Edit: added the stream time for pve/pvp resistance question
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  2. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Great job taking the time to find the exact times for the question and his response in Monday's stream, @jiirc .
    Thank you very much for doing that for us !

    So, I used @jiirc 's notes to get the exact question and Chris's response, and here is (verbatim) the question and his response (with times):

    44:43
    hoagieboomer:!question Are resistances working in pve? Are they supposed to work in pve? People are saying they don't work in pve.

    52:00
    I can go double-check .... they should (?) work... Now the thing that's different is there's some of their old skills we marked (?) the damage type on them... but, I can go and check to see - it may be that they're working (?)... I know there's "logic" in there to make 'em work...
    52:27 But they may not be "scaling" at the same rate we expect....
    52:32 (says he's making jira entry)
    52:43 That is one that I've wondered about, but I haven't looked at in forever so, deserve to take a look at... and the reason is because this release is one of the first releases where you guys can get some make some serious choices on damage resistances with the new ward skill. And that would be kind of lame if ... the resistances... like it... absolutely I know it helps people on other players... it "should" be helping PvE as well, but I want to make sure it is helping you in a way that's "meaningful" , because they do use two different sets of "logic" and I'm worried that the "scale" may be off on that - or on the PvE one...
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  3. Scanphor

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    Chris just confirmed on stream it is meant to work in PvE - a few isolated cases just now where it doesn't but he intends to fix this release
     
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  4. jiirc

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    Near the end of today's stream (1:49:00 about a 45s answer) Chris confirmed that the multiplier calculation is used but the mob's int is used (somehow, not enough time to get into it today) to determine the sourceAttunement in the calculation. At least that's what I gathered from his response (actually he responded twice to the question, but the secomd was a bit clearer to me.)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  5. Lazlo

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    I've never done any PvP testing, but it's not misinformation that wards, along with resist potions and blessings have always been broken in PvE. It's pretty easy to test with fire resistance, because douse and shield of ice both work and can be used to confirm that an effect is fire based. This has been reported since ward gems were first introduced.
     
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  6. Barugon

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    It's really going to suck for magic users, especially those that PvP.
     
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  7. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Gotta think tho, if you take warding skills in earth, sun, or air you will lose the ability to buff strength, int, and dex to any meaningful degree with those spells.

    If you Gm the warding for death you no longer have a formidable death shield or summon pets. if you GM the warding for water you no longer have a notable healing pet and lose soothing rain as a good heal over time.

    If you get magic resist fromt he tactics tree you will lose the ability to heal yourself with lfie magic very well

    Not only that, but other people's buffs and heals wont work so well on you either.

    The tradeoff is pretty substantial and I doubt many will turtle resistance to the extreme because it will nuke all those buffs folks love to use to oblivion. My prediction is that Earth, sun, and death magic will be the ones people resisnt the least. Also, chaos magic cannot be resisted other than with natural attunment, so chaos bolt I believe will become more popular.
     
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  8. Jason_M

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    Does anyone know if the current resistance skills will stack with warding? For example, if I have +30 fire resistance from Fire Proof, will Fire Warding improve that? o_O
     
  9. Violet Ronso

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    Yes it will. As it is not a % but a fixed number, it might be a weighted system like dodge and Glancing blow, but this is pure speculation though.

    This is a very good insight on these resistances I had not gotten as far yet. One thing to note, summons are not affected by attunement, so your comment on the water elemental doesnt stand, but the remainder are very true.

    IMO once PvE resistances work 100%, I think the more popular (especially for PvE people) will be Fire and Death, considering those are the 2 schools used the most by mobs. Also, people can simply select 1 type of buff and ignore the other two, so as a warrior, air and sun warding are an obvious choice.
     
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  10. Jason_M

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    @Violette Dyonisys Thank you for the insight.

    One other curiosity, though: What do you mean by glancing blow being a weighted system?
     
  11. jiirc

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    All of the different resistance, the 5 I mentioned above are summed to get the total resist and attunement value used in the calculation. So in that sense they stack together. But fire proof doesn’t improve fire warding. The contribution would be whatever your fire proof is at plus the fire warding skill. But fire warding won’t make your fire proof value higher it would stay at 30.

    There is one more, resistance potions, that I didn’t think about. It should also contribute, but i’m Going to have to confirm that.
     
  12. Violet Ronso

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    Basically what happens with Glancing blow, dodge and parry is that when you look at your number, let's say 80 from the dodge skill for 2 seconds, and then 36 for 30 seconds (my numbers are probably off but who cares). This doesn't mean you are getting an 80%dodge chance for 2 seconds, this means you dodge "weight" is +80. Now when you get hit, many things start calculating, your dodge weight will be compared to the enemies "hit formula" (which has DeX and stuff). Then depending on the result you will either dodge or be hit. More dexterous enemies will be harder to dodge, so your +80 dodge can be huge vs some mobs, but very little against others.
     
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  13. Arkah EMPstrike

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    I tried to find a difference and couldn't see one. Yesterday the clockwork dragon was hitting me the same damage it was hitting everyone else and I have over 100 air resistance rollin so im still not convinced its working atm. I did have a party member with 120 moon attunment use meteor swarm on me tho and saw I wasn't taking lethal damage so it was deffinately working there
     
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  14. Sway

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    So its not working in pve?
     
  15. Violet Ronso

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    Not on many older mobs (and by older, it isnt quite obvious older than what).
     
  16. jiirc

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    So asked Chris today about the net value for tactics magic warding and tatics magic attunement. It is being calculated as tacitcs magic warding - (tacis margic attunement / 2). Chris had at one time thought it would a net of 25 but decided to let it go higher, so the net at GM would be +50 (100 - 100 / 2). So my resistance ecalculations above would be off as there would 25 more resistance to take into account.
     
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