Can We Get Some Structure, Please?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Cordelayne, Jun 6, 2019.

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  1. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    @Chris @DarkStarr @Anyone Who Will Listen

    With the relatively recent move to a "nomadic" office situation, combined with the often touted "agile" development cycle/process and the small size of the current Portalarium team; there is a lack (or perceived lack) of structure as to what is currently happening with development.

    While I applaud @Chris for all his efforts in Twitch streaming every day, there are many of us who simply do not have the time or desire to watch hours of video to try and figure out what is currently queued in the development pipeline. If the daily stand-up notes are a thing of the past, fine, I would hate to do them as well; but there needs to be a better way to succinctly disseminate the information than what is currently being afforded all players. If it weren't for @Arkah EMPstrike, literally summarizing the Twitch streams, I would have no idea what is happening at all. Kudos to him and his diligence in doing so.

    However, this ultimately is not Arkah or any player's responsibility, it is Portalariums. This is not an unusual request, given how a majority of what was supposed to be released in R66 got nixed, with no indication as to when it might get done in the future (Episode 2 anyone?). Darkstarr, to his credit, does put together quarterly development projections and release updates, but as we know, they tend to be rather nebulous and change quite frequently; operating more as a macro rather than micro view of what is happening. Things need to be more consistent on the micro, daily/weekly level!

    This can easily be done, and need not detract overly much from the actual development of the game. If someone has the time to craft daily Twitch stream alert emails, there is time to put some actual "shape" to this process; ultimately leading to greater efficiency in the circulation of information.

    What I would suggest (humbly of course), is the creation of a daily outline where Chris' Twitch streams have a specific set agenda, broken into segments and are limited to one hour, maybe an hour and half, but no longer. An example agenda might look something like the following:

    I) Introduction
    a. Brief overview on weekly development
    II) Current Development
    a. Housing/PoTs/Dungeons
    b. Story/Quests/Episode 2 (PVE)
    c. Crafting
    d. PVP
    e. Misc.
    III) Q and A
    a. Answer player questions/concerns
    b. Address any outstanding issues
    IV) Prizes
    a. Awarding of prizes to viewers
    V) Conclusion
    a. Update on any daily updates/fixes
    b. Misc. info (book update, collectors boxes, etc.)

    Now, it is entirely possible Chris does something like this already, but given the current "stream of consciousness" format, it isn't reflected well. At a minimum, structuring the streams in such a manner and releasing the information within the daily email alert would allow players to "pop in" during the segments they want to watch. Or, more likely, skip to the section of the video once it has been uploaded afterwards. I think we can all agree it can be difficult sifting through the videos currently trying to find relevant info.

    In conclusion, I recognize that there are those players who enjoy the current format. My intent is not to spoil their fun, but to be more inclusionary of all players and to offer a structured format that is easier for everyone to access. Again, this is my humble opinion and request; as we move forward with the development of the game. Thank you for your considerations of this post and remember:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    I have to disagree with you. We are not their bosses and should not be dictating what they can and can’t or how they should be doing it. If Chris wants to stream in a random kind of way without any structure, it is not up to anyone here to say you must follow a structure. That is what bosses do, and last time I checked now one here is hired by Portalarium or in the organizational structure. He’s not a child, he’s a grown ass man.

    Change is the nature of their project management style, always has been. If you hate it know, what until there isn’t any forward facing structure and what gets worked on in any given month becomes more business centric, where decisions are made based on what is best to push player recruitment and retention. It didn’t surprise me that most of what was intended to be worked on for this release got pushed back as they tried to adapt to various demands and goals. And those demands and goals will continually shift from month to month, that’s the nature of this team’s project management style.
     
  3. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Respectfully, I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. They wouldn't be here if it weren't for the millions of dollars players have spent in supporting the development of the game. As a Kickstarter based, player funded, open development game, they are 100% accountable to us. In such a manner, it behooves them to reach as many players as possible and not alienate sections of that base due to poor communication; which let me remind you, they have admitted isn't great already.

    Again, this was my request not a demand, as someone who does not have the time to watch and search through Twitch stream videos for information.

    You're telling me the current focus on housing, deco, dungeons and other pixels isn't business centric relative to future funding? Furthermore, what MMO doesn't constantly and consistently focus on player recruitment and retention? Player recruitment and retention should always be a top priority, as it has the most direct and significant correlation to future revenue growth and the game's longevity.

    Not really sure what you mean here, I didn't espouse that he was a child, lol...
     
  4. Khal Drogo

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    If you watched the streams you would know Chris is doing a great job without an agenda ...taking feedback from players .repairing whats wrong based on that feedback right then and there , answers tons of questions and is adressing lots of issues for almost 3 hours ...so no ....my vote goes to letting him do his thing ..he does it well .
     
  5. oplek

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    The contention isn't that he isn't fixing bugs. It's that the communication is poor. Requiring people to spent hours of their time to mine information that's spread throughout the entire stream is only compatible with a subset of people, requiring others to pick up the slack to inform everyone else... and thus not a "great job", almost definitionally.

    I've listened to the streams. The density of actual useful information is very sparse, speckled between adjusting the dog bed, or answering questions that are mostly "Can we have...?", which aren't really questions.. they're requests. A very horrible method for keeping the community up to date.
     
  6. GMDavros

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    I'd say it's less about Chris's herculean efforts and more about structure. Structure develops process. Process develops predictability and repeat ability. Predictability and repeat-ability develop confidence and trust. If I were to run my development team this way, there would be consequences (i.e. i'd be fired for not alerting leadership that i was in deep trouble).

    Having said that, like I've said before, it's not my shop. They are free to run it whatever way the feel best suits their situation. They (and we) deal with those consequences. Not much more to say.

    Fenris
     
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  7. Khal Drogo

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    I suggest you go to your politician or local law enforcement tomorrow and explain to them that you have a schedule prepared for their work day..what to do..how to do it and for how long ..also let em know you are paying their salaries .... do tell us if you get kicked in the .... afterwards ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  8. Forum Name

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    There is a group of 150-200 people who can take hours of their workday to watch these, and love it. Great - good for you. If Chris and Port only want to cater to that audience, that is fine. Perhaps the strategy is to keep the hardest of the hardcore happy and spending, and let the rest go. I would hope not though. Cordelayne is trying to offer suggestions to help reach and retain more players, and he gets attacked for daring to offer improvements. You guys realize this doesn't help the game to just try and shut people down, right?

    There is another group of players that do not have the time or temerity to wade through what is more and more becoming the only means of communication. And one should think about if new players are going to be inclined to watch hours of streams. I know those 150 people like the stream, but for a lot us it is not a great use of our time and so scattershot - I don't want to watch and just hope a topic is covered. If there was a recap post or better communication in other formats I could at least determine what was discussed and get an official quick snapshot from Port about what the heck is going on. And by post I mean by Chris, so it is something official - bless those that have tried to recap these, but often the summary is what that particular person wants to hear, versus what Chris actually said.

    You know what would excite players, potentially? Better, and official information about what is coming, both near term fixes and the bigger picture stuff. I don't think the current written cut and paste updates are doing the game any favors, and only learning about things by being told "go look at Chris' stream, somewhere in the middle of a four hour stream" to find information is not going to attract people. Chris says a lot of stuff that could actually be used to promote the game, yet gets left fallow in hours and hours of streams most people aren't going to watch. Again, if the goal is to just keep a few hundred people happy, just keep on keepin' on...

    There is room for improvement here, and yes, I know Chris taking time to do or explain anything is more than some other games do. But the foundation of SotA has always had a good amount of information flow relative to other games, because as is often stated "we, the players, are not just passengers on this journey".
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
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  9. Violet Ronso

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    While I agree that we need a more structured way of getting information and updates, at this point I have to entirely disagree with you that we have to give Chris a schedule. Chris is probably the only Dev that has as much closeness to us, and if we impose him a schedule, it will become a "This is why we can't have nice things" moment, where he might simply end up stopping entirely.

    What I think should happen instead of stand up notes or a strict stream schedule, would be participation from the others. How many people work on this project? I know Scottie works on housing and deco quite a lot adding things at players request, or fixing others. I know there's that other guy answering most bug reports, and then there is List which I see sometimes in Chris's stream, but I'm never sure what he does.

    Ohh and Darkstarr but apart from announcements and release notes, what does he do? And what about the others? Dont put this in the hands of the 1 guy who is actually giving us as much as he can, hold the others accountable and make them participate more, with a weekly Dev agenda with what they plan on working on, even if it isn't 100% precise, if they at least do that, we will have a happier player base, but please please please give Chris a break, he already does far more than we could ask, and I'm scared people like you will make him stop.
     
  10. Khal Drogo

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    Thats pretty much what i wanted to say but eyes turned red and something else came out..when i think of other people trying to make my schedule i tend to rebel .... i got no problem with improving the way things are presented in forum ... lets just not start making schedules for devs ... damn im turning red again ...
     
  11. Forum Name

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    Agreed Chris does a lot, probably too much. The questions you ask are valid, but I would add one. Perhaps Chris is the only one left with the drive and desire to do this stuff? I can't figure out why he has been taking on all of this when there is a particular name whose role traditionally took on a lot of what Chris does now. That's just how it feels to me, YMMV.
     
  12. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    So, again, this was just a suggestion; given that all information on what is happening stems from @Chris and his Twitch streams. Which aren't accessible to all players. I don't care if it is done through the use of an agenda, stand-up notes, or more frequent updates from other developers, but the information needs to be circulated in a better fashion. This isn't a knock on them, it is merely my thoughts on how one could improve communication of this intel to all players. Not just to those that have the time to watch these streams.

    Well as someone who worked for a United States Senator and is now a professional firefighter; I can assure you that politicians and first responders all have their schedules dictated to them in some capacity.
     
  13. Kabalyero Kidd

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    I think he was just giving out a suggestion. I don't think he was dictating anything or ordering anyone. It was just a suggestion (no harm in suggesting) which @Chris and anyone left in Portalarium can easily ignore. :D

    True! He can do whatever he wants! :) It was just a suggestion. ;)

     
  14. Vladamir Begemot

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    Here's how Chris can make this useful for all of us. Since he thinks up/remembers new info as he goes along, here's how it could be useful to the rest of us
    • Jot down important info as the stream progresses
    • Summarize during the last five minutes. And end of the show "News" section.
     
  15. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Absolutely, this would be immeasurably helpful!

    @Kabalyero Kidd Thank you! :D
     
  16. Dinsoo

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    Structure? There are several 'devs' long gone still listed as current employees. Good luck with this, OP.
     
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  17. Khal Drogo

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    Is that how you justify dictating ( you chose the word ) a schedule for devs ? Politicians or first responders have schedules dictated to them ... by whom ? People who pay their wages or their higher ups ?
     
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  18. Mylady ‘Gin Gin Darlin

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    Getting a bit off topic there friend.
     
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  19. Kabalyero Kidd

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    A simple suggestion has turned into a political argument... Surprised people are getting riled up by a simple suggestion... *mind blown* *pwwoooooshhh* >_<

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Dinsoo

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    I would like to eat this new 'watcher'
     
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