Magic resists and attunement etc

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jigger48, May 2, 2018.

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  1. Turk Key

    Turk Key Avatar

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    <<As confused as ever. So correct me if I am wrong (please). We needed to address the problem that non-magic people needed to level magic schools to attain resistance even though they would never use those skills. The solution is to require them to level magic skills to balance attunement with the new resistance skills. What am I missing?
     
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  2. Crendel

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    You are not missing anything. You are correct. If you do not want to level the magic schools then you will spend a disproportionate amount of xp to get the same effect as having a "little" xp in both warding and magic

    I just leveled both fire and death to 80 in each skill. It cost me about 4.5 mil XP. My attunements are around 90. And I just did a run in the Rise before servers went down. Very noticeable resistances to the magea
     
  3. Violet Ronso

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    The issue was people who did not want to use magic at all were forced to do it to get resistances. Now, they can do it.

    Let's ignore the existing resistance passives in some trees for now. To get about 50 points of resistance worth, a warrior had to train 10 spells and passives to 100 to get this. Now, they can simply either A. Train the specific warding to 100 (so only 1 passive to train) or B. Train the specific Warding AND the Tactics Warding to 50, and this will net them 50 points of resistance, without using a single spell. This means the main problem is solved.

    What you two are talking about is for someone who wants to reach extremes in terms of resistances, they CAN raise 3 things :
    1. Their Attunement;
    2. The Specific Warding;
    3. The Tactics Warding.

    Raising attunement to counteract the effects of warding is not a necessity, it is simply 2 things, a min-maxers way, and a "Cheaper" way. It is by no means the required method, it simply offers extra benefits.

    Warding has solved the previous issue people had with attunement, it simply raised a new one being people with more time on their hands than others can nearly negate completely magic used against them, which an easy fix could happen to solve everything.
     
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  4. Jason_M

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    Hi folks. Stones for brains has a question:

    With 100 Death Warding and -100 death attunement (completely empty death tree), am I completely gimped against death magic?

    I thought I had to choose between 80 death attunement (-40 death attunement from caster), and 100 death resistance from warding. I was pretty excited to go with the latter, but...

    Is my -100 death attunement actually empowering the spells of my enemies (+50 enemy death attunement)?

    o_O:confused::oops:
     
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  5. Crendel

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    Well I guess I brushed over tactics warding. Just read it and how would it play into the resistance numbers? Should I not be working on raising my attunements. In other words as a blades only fella should I not care about attunement and focus on the tactics warding and death/fire warding to yield better resists?

    In this game I am a huge fan of min/max as grinding xp is painfully dull sometimes and getting best bang for buck is what I prefer
     
  6. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Not really. It's +50 enemy death attunement from your negative attunement, but -100 enemy attunement from your resistance. So a net -50 enemy attunement.
     
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  7. Barugon

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    Why? What does this get you? From my perspective, if you don't use the magic then just get everything as high as possible.
     
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  8. Violet Ronso

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    Basically Tactics Warding is simply 8 schools in 1 skill. It does the same thing as all the 8 other warding passives combined (so this one will actually lower your attunement for schools you might use, thus you might want to keep that one lower). My current plan for my Polearm Tank Avatar is to get Tactics warding to maybe 40 (MAYBE), and then the other ones I want (Fire, Death and Air) to 80, along with attunement to 80, this is how far I am ready to go for now, and it should give me a total of 100 resistances in those three schools, but hamper on my life and Earth attunements by 40 points of attunement (this is why I am unsure for now).

    You simply need to figure out how far you are willing to go with this, and go with the best combination for you.
     
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  9. Violet Ronso

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    The formula is :
    Casters Attunement- (Your attunement ÷ 2) - Your resistance.

    By having 0 attunement and 100 warding, this gives you real values of :
    -100 Attunement
    100 resistance
    And this translates into this formula :
    Casters Attunement - (-100 ÷ 2) - 100
    And then becomes
    Casters Attunement - (-50) - 100
    Which then becomes
    Casters attunement + 50 - 100
    Which finally is
    Casters Attunement - 50

    So as you can see, by dropping your attunement by 100 points but giving you 100 points of resistance, you are not gimping your defensive abilities, you are actually getting more protection without training any spells in the school of magic of your choice.

    Now where this negative attunement will hurt you is if you try to use a spell of that same school of magic. Let's say you use Death Touch (from your Death magic example), at this point, you start at -100 attunement, so your spells are already weaker than anyone else's, and then you start taking into consideration the defenders defensive stats versus your death spell.

    Now what happens in the end is this "effective attunement" ( the number left at then end of the formula I keep talking about) is used to find a "damage multiplier, which will determine how much damage your spells will actually do on your target. Having 0 or less than 0 effective attunement does not mean you will do 0 damage, it just means you will do less damage.

    BTW if anyone knows this damage multiplier formula would you mind sending it to me? I keep bringing it up but cant back myself up with results here and it would help immensely!
     
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  10. Mimner

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    In the following, by 'base attunement' i mean simply the average of the top ten skills in the magic tree. This is what your attunement would be if you had 0 bonuses/penalties from gear, buffs, specialization, or warding.

    I've been thinking about it more, and think a better rule of thumb would be to keep your warding and base attunement roughly equal.

    Its a question of how much benefit you gain verses how much exp it costs you for that benefit.

    Raising your base attunement by 1 point gives the exact same benefit as raising your warding by 1 point. Also, the benefits from base attunement and warding stack. The following three cases are equivalent in benefit: 0 base attunement and 100 warding, 100 base attunement and 0 warding, and 50 base attunement and 50 warding. Even though all three of these cases provide the same benefit, the exp cost for them is wildly different:

    exp cost for 0 base attunement and 100 warding = 24.25 million
    exp cost for 100 base attunement and 0 warding = 15.34 to 30.66 million, depending on the school
    exp cost for 50 base attunement and 50 warding = 334 to 463 thousand, depending on the school.

    Notice the first two cases cost in the tens of million exp to acheive, while the third case is less than half a million. Yet all three cases yield equivalent results when resisting spells.

    So under these changes you still need to invest in both base attunement and warding. You will also be able to attain incredibly higher levels of resist verses magic then before.

    As for keeping base attunement and warding roughly equal, it really depends on the school. Less expensive schools will be cheaper to keep base attunement a little higher than warding, more expensive schools you would want the reverse.
     
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  11. Barugon

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    Again, it doesn't matter because you always get defensive benefit from either. The only reason you woukd care about having positive attunement is if you were actually going to use the magic from that tree.
     
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  12. Violet Ronso

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    No, What mimner is trying to say is that to get the most resistance / experience spent, the right call would be to keep attunement & warding relatively equal, due to the way exp per level is exponential. I think you might have slightly miss-understood what he meant.
     
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  13. Mimner

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    I think the misunderstanding is in what I mean by base attunement. Sorry about not being clearer. I'm not talking about the actual attunement number that appears on your skill window. That number represents the sum of your base attunement plus all the modifiers you have to it, including from warding skill. By base attunement I'm talking about adding up the levels of your ten highest skills in the tree and then dividing by 10.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  14. Barugon

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    This depends entirely on the experience cost of the skills involved (which can range from 0.5x to 20x) and is different for each tree.
     
  15. Beaumaris

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    I really appreciated Violette's explanations. Thank you. I'd just observe that the system is still a mess if it takes pages of forum posts for us to collectively understand it as a group of experienced players. If I have to refer back to this thread to understand the math to make skill adjustments in game, the system is not as elegant is it needs to be still. New players encountering the system will still be befuddled.
     
  16. Violet Ronso

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    Still, 50 Attunement and 50 Warding is ALWAYS cheaper than 10 skills at 100 or Warding at 100, that is a fact, and Mimner even backed it up with actual numbers.

    I am working on something for this. Warding has sprouted AT LEAST 5 different threads, each going for a few pages, filled with confusion. I think a decent guide is deserved, and I should have one up tomorrow (Hopefully someone reminds me the actual "Power multiplier" formula so it can be even more complete!)
     
  17. Crendel

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    When you write the guide please mention tactics warding and the pro/cons. All melee still need to cast some level of magic; shields, heals, buffs.

    Taking tactics warding would reult in lower attunemwnt and there by should lower the power of spells.

    Or is tjere something I am missing
     
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  18. Violet Ronso

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    Nope not at all, you are spot on! By taking Tactics Warding, here are some things everyone will feel: Lower heals due to lower life attunement. Weaker buffs from a major stat (Airs Embrace, Strength of Earth, Enlightenment). Weaker spells if one decides to use spells such as Chain Lightning, Dash, Earthquake, Ignite weapon, and such.

    Yes this will be mentioned as it plays a vital role in decision making of which warnings you raise, and which attunements you raise.
     
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  19. Ataniiq

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    When would tactics warding be useful? Will it stack with each individual magic school warding skill?
     
  20. Barugon

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    Yes.
     
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