The RNG in masterworking/enchanting is...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by oplek, Jul 9, 2019.

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The RNG in masterworking/enchanting is...

  1. Fun

    9 vote(s)
    12.7%
  2. Tolerable

    13 vote(s)
    18.3%
  3. Not fun

    49 vote(s)
    69.0%
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  1. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    I'm curious what the humans think.
     
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  2. OzzyOsbourne

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    Do not offend the RNG gods. Vote Fun.
     
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  3. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    Its changing next patch, and I look forward to the change which will make it much better then the current system
     
  4. Cora Cuz'avich

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    What's changing?
     
  5. Steevodeevo

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    Re rolls. Still rng, but modified based on skill to get you another chance, maybe more chances.
     
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  6. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    This should be a red flag. The enchanting/masterwork system is layers upon layers of patches, fixes, bandaids and duct tape. This should say something about the fundamental approach.
     
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  7. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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  8. Steevodeevo

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    It is a bit like that it seems but at least skill is now in the equation. In his broadcast Chris said rng was essential to keep the economy model stable. So maybe its a work in progress?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
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  9. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Theres also a plan to mmake higher quality resources that have some effect on this. And skill level causing increasing probability of stronger mods. first thing wotn be in next release, second thing might
     
  10. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    @oplek well, you are persistent, I will give you that.
    Did you write down your vision for a better crafting system somewhere?
    I would like to give it a read.
     
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  11. oplek

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    A fundamental aspect of the game shouldn't be a work in progress 1.3 years after launch, trying to continually hotfix a system that's almost universally hated. This is not a clear vision. It's a mangled train wreck that they're trying to McGyver into a Ferrari.

    Keep in mind that the reroll mechanic is essentially trying to solve the RNG problem by voiding some of the RNG. Therein hints at the solution the problems.
     
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  12. Rowell

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    Completely agree. That's like saying "you win if you roll a 1 or a 2 on this d20, but if you don't get a 1 or 2 on your first roll, we'll give you a second roll to try again for free".
    No, the whole premise is broken. Crafting an item is not a dice roll or a slot machine. Crafting an item is a skill based thing.

    "I want to make a very sturdy sword. *clang clang clang of the hammer* Ooops! I hit it at the wrong angle one too many times. Now it's a sharp sword, not a sturdy sword." said no blacksmith ever.

    The whole concept of randomized effects based on RNG is flawed. There are soooo many ways to make the system work better, several of which have been posted across a wide swathe of these forums.

    When 70-80% of the player base agree that the Enchanting/Masterworking system is flawed/terrible...it's best to come up with a better system. Otherwise, you risk alienating a big portion of your player base.

    They say that RNG system keeps people from monopolizing the market because they have highest skill to make the best equipment. How exactly is that different when groups of people just give up crafting equipment because they're tired of playing the E/MW slot machine game?
     
  13. eli

    eli Avatar

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    Yeah... Wouldn't want to ruin the pristine eco we have going.

    God forbid new players feel like they have a place in it.
     
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  14. Adam Crow

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    Continuously hotfix? The last change to crafting was when they removed items disappearing on failure and that was ages ago. Crafting has been ignored for a long time and Im sure we can all agree that it needs a lot of help asap.
     
  15. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    I can tell you that almost every mmo I have played has reworked crafting systems over many years. This is common in almost all mmo's that have extensive crafting. As one of the many top crafters I can tell you if there as no RNG I would probably not be crafting and be buying instead because there would be no way for me to produce the same gear as the top people. with the RNG there is a chance I will produce something rare that sells, where no rng why buy from me when there is someone better? This would then force me to have to play price wars to sell which is not good because its already costly to make things and unless you get a rare configuration sometimes you are at a loss.

    From my perspective its designed to be hard for a reason :)
     
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  16. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    new players can make gear for people in the level range they are crafting, same as all games. the one bonus is that there is a chance to make something better then all those in your level range. Also just so you know the difference between a level 80 vs 100 crafter is only 1-2 points in skills. and same for 100-120 crafter. Mind you 100 and up will at some point start to get more options and the rerolls but we all get there eventually :)
     
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  17. Astirian

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    If there ever was an image to summarise my programming efforts, this is it! lol
     
  18. Malimn

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    Well I have been thinking of an easy way to explain this to all the pro RNG people out there and i believe I FINALLY hit on a few examples as to why I think RNG makes NO Sense...

    So lets say your going to buy a vehicle from XYZ manufacture... You tell them the color, features, etc you want on it... They come back and state it is going to cost between 20k to 24k based off the results of our manufacturing process. Sorta stupid right?? So they now go to make your vehicle based off of your specifications and the color is correct but not the agreed to shade, you have satellite radio but it only will play stations that play music from the 1940's, you wanted an 8 cylinder engine and they delivered 6 cylinder engine, you requested leather seats and they are cloth and your vehicle only makes right hand turns. So do you go and buy the car or get upset with the dealer who provided you the car. They cant change the price of the vehicle and still want to charge you the higher price due to the amount of materials it took just to make this car, they had to make many cars in the process just to make this one and then destroy them because they did not have anything you wanted in it. You cannot sell the car because no one else wants it either. So you agree to wait, they cannot give you a date or price or guarantee the vehicle will match the one you originally wanted, OH your price has just gone up because they now require MORE materials to make your vehicle. A few months go by and they state they now have your vehicle.. You go to look at it and it matches all your needs.... The price of materials to make the vehicle was 12x the expected cost because you do not control the construction process and they state they want you to pay the difference. OH they also stated that this warranty of 50k miles has been reduced to 20k warranty because of the manufacturing process had a couple of failures during construction.

    Crafting sucks when you follow the same logic path as SoTA does and damn it FIX IT!!

    Your worried about killing the resource market by making wholesale changes, I say FIX CRAFTING and remove the damn RNG, it has become a joke and any true craftsman would say the same.
     
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  19. Rowell

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    ↑↑↑ THIS!!!!!!! ↑↑↑
    Right here, right now!!! Exactly!!!
     
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  20. Adam Crow

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    Ok so in this same example, picture yourself as a car manufacturer. With the rng you can compete with the other car companies. After the rng is removed you don't have anymore customers left because one car company is better then you. They can make the best cars that you just can't even come close to making. Everyone buys cars from them now, so you are left with a parking lot full of junk or a factory with materials you have no use for anymore.

    I get what you're saying with your real world example and I agree that it isn't fun for everyone. But I was having fun crafting up until they announced crafting spec and the possibility of no more rng. I simply stopped crafting and started waiting. I have hardly crafted anything for months now and it totally sucks for me personally. I was having fun with the old system before. Lots of fun. To me, making that really good item more than made up for the failures. The feeling Elrond must have gotten when he was successful in his 4th enchant to make that +20 fire wand is probably unexplainable :D. I didn't like the idea of rng being removed, in fact it still makes no sense to me for this particular game. I'm excited for the new changes because I've been waiting now for what seems like forever.
     
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