Crafting specialisation - we can pick all trees ( Chris Stream)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Elrond, Jul 17, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bow Vale

    Bow Vale Avatar

    Messages:
    1,729
    Likes Received:
    4,699
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pericaliya
    While this is the opposite of what i would have done i can see the reasoning and in truth is likely best for the game and the players that play it now. However, it will not encourage new players to the game, it will not encourage a true economy where players are reliant on others and will not encourage an economy where players want to buy from others if they can in time make it themselves as they will hoard resources and level crafting themselves.

    It shows Portals predicted path for the game which is to allow the grind to continue, keep the players that enjoy it and hopefully every full moon or so when the stars align to pick up a new player who needs a bit of rough love in their life.

    Lets just hope the birth rate => death rate...
     
  2. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

    Messages:
    3,118
    Likes Received:
    7,912
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Cuz some very vocal players joined this classless game and wanted to make it classed.
     
  3. Lars vonDrachental

    Lars vonDrachental Avatar

    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    I was hoping for far more specialized specialization with e.g. the possibility to specialize just in Masterwork Blade Weapon Proficiency and while you can do all the other stuff quite good you would be just in one specific part of the crafting system a genius.
     
  4. Gorthyn

    Gorthyn Avatar

    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    1,497
    Trophy Points:
    93
    What a waste of time - everyone being able to do everything is one of the key reasons why SOTA fails as a multiplayer game.

    A classless game should not mean everyone is a demi-god clone of everyone else, it's just poor design.
     
  5. Spungwa

    Spungwa Avatar

    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Trophy Points:
    93
    This in conjunction with specialization would make me specialise without the game restriction. I never liked the game restriction of maximum number of specialisations, as all games that do this just lead to serious crafter's making alts.

    I'm not a full time crafter and getting what would be about 20 (just for the production skills) 20x skills would take me a decade. So I would prioritize the order, making me a specialist for a very long time.

    I would also like to see enchantment specialisation split up. Could at least go to weapon/armour tree level, even if it is not weapon/armour type level like MW.


    Regards
    Spung
     
  6. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    10,347
    Likes Received:
    24,869
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    Hmmm well there is no choice in that and I hope they re-think this. The point of specializing was to be a specialist at something not at everything. I hope they reconsider. Sure it's nice to know everything but is it what is best for the game? @Bzus
     
    Paladin Michael and Gorthyn like this.
  7. Spungwa

    Spungwa Avatar

    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I know of no MMO that doesn't let me do everything as a player. This is even more true when the game is free to play and alt cost nothing. The ones that try just force me to go through pointless character swaps to do it.

    In adventuring everyone can do everything, but not on a single deck. You aren't restricted by what you can learn, but you are restricted to a subset of what you can do at any one time. A deck with all skills in is a useless deck.

    Regards
    Soung
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  8. Spungwa

    Spungwa Avatar

    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So I did have a thought. This works very well if the benefits (not the cost in XP) is linear. So benefit of 80 to is the same as 100 to 120.

    Pushing multiple skills that are 20x over 100 using producer XP is very limiting. So specialising would be the obvious player choice
     
    Steevodeevo likes this.
  9. Gorthyn

    Gorthyn Avatar

    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    1,497
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Yes you can have alts in other games to allow a player to do everything spread out across those alts (if you had enough alts) but having just the one demi-god character means no need for co-operation with other players in adventuring questing or grinding and a dead economy because no one needs to buy anything from any one else.

    I go back to the point I made before - it's why SOTA fails as a multiplayer game.
     
  10. Sara Dreygon

    Sara Dreygon Avatar

    Messages:
    1,678
    Likes Received:
    5,830
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There are positives and negatives regarding this for everyone. For me, I want to be the best at one thing so this only makes me think "who needs a new sword...? Oh, you already made one yourself" - right click, delete.

    At least I'll have the extra 50 million XP in Blade Masterwork giving my swords that extra 0.1...
     
  11. Gorthyn

    Gorthyn Avatar

    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    1,497
    Trophy Points:
    93
    When one of Shrouds big features is player vendors and a player driven economy, why do the Devs think that by reinforcing rather than changing the reason the economy is borked is the way ahead ? It's nuts.

    Basic economics is supply and demand. Too much supply and no where near enough demand is the problem that needs solving. This change simply adds to that problem.
     
  12. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    4,028
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Crafters Town
    Just rerrolls team vs More Meaningfull Crafting Skills Team

    From one of Chris Streams

    ''...We need to make skill more meaningfull or add more choices ..theres alot of stuff we need to do ... we dont have an end game for crafting right now that makes you feel like youre being rewarded for being an end game crafter..these are the problems were trying to solve ...there were some strong opinions on what this means and how its gonna work between Starr and some team members...''

     
    Jaesun, Rentier, Vaiden Luro and 2 others like this.
  13. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

    Messages:
    6,331
    Likes Received:
    12,109
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, at least they are aware. No matter different strong opinions.
     
    Vaiden Luro, Cordelayne and Astirian like this.
  14. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    4,028
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Crafters Town
    Yes ..but ...

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

    Messages:
    6,331
    Likes Received:
    12,109
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh but there is action. I am just not sure if I think it's good or bad. Need to give it a try on the next test server cycle to make up my mind.
    As I alrady said: from the outside it looks "meh" ^^
     
  16. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    4,028
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Crafters Town
    Its good for selfsufficient players that dont care about crafting as a main profession...for them i dont see rerolls as being a bad thing ( even though theyll reduce all crafted gear sale price to little more then craft costs and make it even harder for people to sell gear ) ...its like when we go to a market and order some apples, oranges , potatoes and instead we get a small cake with cyanide in it ...wont kill us instantly ... overtime effects on all branches of the crafting economy ...gathering ..refining..crafting...
     
  17. oplek

    oplek Avatar

    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    3,017
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Here's the thing about that... that may be true, but it shows that they aren't even attempting to solve the problem that "specialization" was supposed to be addressing - that everyone can do everything, so why bother buying from others? Maybe it would have been one part of a multi-pronged list of changes, but it would have been progress.

    Once again going back to Eve Online, people have alts... and lots of them. Plus, they CAN make exactly what they want (to a much higher degree). Yet they have a thriving economy. It's because key components of a basic economy are missing in this game. Things like RNG are a bloody bandaid that accidentally makes the economic gears turn.

    The least they could do is stop the facade of calling it "black specialization" and call it something like "advanced blacksmithing" instead.
     
    Cordelayne likes this.
  18. Spinok

    Spinok Avatar

    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Atos is a bit wrong here. This problem is not about end game crafting, problem is about that there is no end game content exept PVP where you really need perfect 5x3 5x4 5x5 items. As there is no content there is no demand for such gear exept you make it for your own or guy who want to raise his chance in PVP.
     
    Bow Vale, Boris Mondragon and Dhanas like this.
  19. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    5,108
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Something I don't understand though about your statements, if there really was no market at all for crafters, why were there so many of em selling so much gear? Why is there towns where they've separated the vendor stocks by type of crafted Items? I mean look at Elrond, Rando, Robyn, Tailz & Ozzy, and I am surely missing so many others.

    Having a real specialization would not have created a new market out of the blue, as those who already did everything themselves would have done it either way, because those who do everything themselves DON'T want to rely on others. Just look at how mad some people were that a white dragon was only in a PvP zone, They HAD to kill it themselves, it was a MUST. Same thing for crafted gear, those players MUST do it by themselves.

    Doing it this way will simply make crafters lives much easier, and in all seriousness, 24m producer EXP for 1 tree, and exponentially past that? Are you seriously saying it is a piece of cake? For Adventurer trees you can make 1m exp per hour EASY, for crafting there may be a point where this is true, but not for ever, it is only until you've crafted every recipe a few times.

    Specialization in crafting being limited to X trees per avatar would have NOT solved ANY issues with the game, zero. Crafters will still make everything themselves, self sufficient players too, and the rest will rely on others either as groups to avoid the massive experience sink, or because they can't bother with crafting (like me and many others who do actually help the crafters economy).
     
    Rentier, FrostII, Mac2 and 1 other person like this.
  20. oplek

    oplek Avatar

    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    3,017
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Because of the roleplay aspect of it. Even on this forum, many people say that they do the crafting despite taking a huge loss on it. They're doing it in spite of the economy being borked. Others have more of a corner on the market than others, having given themselves more exposure just on sheer quantity of lots and vendors spread all over the place.

    No, actually, that's the point. You aren't missing that many other people. Even the people you're citing have complaints about the state of the economy. For every person who manages to eek out a living with the economy, so many others fall flat, give up, and go home. You can see this on vendor after vendor with junk that's been sitting there for months, if not years.

    The problem was that it was behind a PVP wall, not that they didn't want to to it themselves.

    Making it easier shouldn't be the point. Making the game non-maddening with an awful game mechanic, and reworking it so that the basics tenets of an economy actually exist, should be the goal.

    I actually agree. But people seem to be unable to look at the bigger picture. Personally, I was rolling my eyes at the "specialization" in the first place. But at least they seemed to be actually TRYING to address the problems with everyone being able to do everything with regard to having an ecomony. But now there isn't even that.

    They're adding in skills that...
    ... Reduce the RNG which they...
    ... Insist are critical to the economy functioning ...
    ... While completely forgetting that anything outside of enchanting and masteworking barely have any RNG at all ...

    They can't even keep their story straight.
     
    Jaesun, FrostII, Sara Dreygon and 5 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.