A serious problem... and a solution.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Maya SaintClaire, Aug 13, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Maya SaintClaire

    Maya SaintClaire Avatar

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Thanks for responding @Earl Atogrim von Draken!

    Aye, we are... I think most don't really know they contribute to it though. I don't think most players who leave us really spend much time thinking about how they came to that decision either. Some do of course, and like a few have said here on this thread, we all have a different experience in our first few days/weeks. But there's no doubt some, if not most, new players are affected by the general tone of the established players here in one way or another.

    I sincerely hope enough of us see this as a serious issue and that we can effectively increase the retention rate. It wouldn't even have to be by much to make a HUGE difference. A game that is growing has many advantages over one that is not. Even if the growth rate is slow... as long as it's steady, it completely changes the paradigm. We'd see a real and tangible positive effect on both the dev team and the current base very quickly. Growth is magic in that sense.

    Thanks again for responding!
     
  2. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    11,010
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    986
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Sigh. I know I shouldn't. Everyone else has taken the high ground by ignoring it. I've been refraining so far. But now I'm gonna go ahead and take the bait...

    Yeah, you're really interested in a productive conversation without rudeness.

    Complaining is only a problem when it's not accompanied by productive action. You can't solve problems without fully identifying them first or acknowledging they exist, and there are plenty of people who like to label any statement of a problem as complaining. And when problems have been clearly stated and identified for months and years and still aren't fixed, of course people are going to get frustrated and the statement of problems will take on a different tone.

    In real life, I'm a local civic advocate, working on transit issues and low-income equity in government (at least when burnout and my health doesn't interfere as it has lately). I freely tell anyone who listens that I have no patience whatsoever for people who want to complain about things without being willing to put in the work to make change happen. Heck, the reason I can't put money into SotA is that I've spent the past several years working to make positive change for our city without getting paid for it.

    BUT there comes a point when advocates and volunteers can only do so much. After all the long hours we put into producing a great and feasible new Transit Master Plan, one that would help everyone in the city, City Council still chose to "adopt" the plan but not fully fund it. And the bus management company still hires incompetent people. There is NOTHING more we can do to force the company or Council to pull their heads out of their ------. They've got to do that on their own.

    You can't solve any problem without recognizing what is in your power to change and what isn't. I can't MAKE Council fund evening buses any more than I can MAKE the devs bring back selective multiplayer. And none of us can fix the problems that the devs have either created or allowed to evolve, because we don't have direct control over those systems or the factors that influence them. The best we can do is communicate clearly and frequently with the devs, advocate for the needs of the playerbase, and hope for the best.

    And people have done that for years and are still doing it. You still haven't suggested anything to be done that isn't already happening. If you've got concrete ideas, present them and we'll listen. But they have to be ideas that are actually within our circle of influence.

    Because so far you sound to me like one of the new people who comes to one of our transit meetings all fired up and enthusiastic, after moving here only 6 months ago, insisting that (their pet idea) would fix all our problems and it's just a matter of getting community support for it -- completely unaware that we've discussed their pet idea repeatedly over the past several years, that it would have requirements and consequences they're unaware of, and that we're all overworked with more urgent and critical issues already. And unless it's really going to backfire and hurt our other goals, we always encourage them to go ahead and move forward with their plans -- at which point they backtrack, because they either expected US to do the work for them or had no idea just how much work against how many obstacles was involved, and six months later they're gone again, while we're still carrying on with the drudge work of budget requests and bug reports.

    If you have specific ideas -- other than "let's get together to do what people are already doing" -- present them. Preferably without insulting us in the process.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    Alley Oop and Sulaene Moon like this.
  4. Greyfox

    Greyfox Avatar

    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    5,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA EST
    @Maya SaintClaire people such as yourself will be what makes this game a success. I've been following this project for a long time now. I swear sometimes the Developers come up with a decision that makes no sense unless they wanted to tank the project. I'll give one example. If you haven't noticed we have a fully functional planetarium in our virtual world. Pretty amazing, especially given Lord British's connection with space. What we don't have is a fully functional quest system.

    A functional fictional space above our virtual heads or a functional quest system is more important for a successful game?

    I don't know the politics about why or how seasoned game developers made such a decision. I just know the game floundered as a result of decisions made by the Developers, not the players.

    If/when the game becomes successful the reason will be the community. Especially those such as yourself @Maya SaintClaire so keep up the good fight!

    I believe the user generated content vastly exceeds what the Developers have created. They just need to give us the proper tools to continue creating.
     
    Cordelayne and Leah Snow like this.
  5. Leah Snow

    Leah Snow Avatar

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Returning Benefactor here. I didn't get the opportunity to play a lot in '15 due to unforeseen real life events that needed my attention.
    I just returned to the game and subscribed a couple of days ago. I got the three or four friends requests while I was out trying to re-learn the game but no one actually spoke to me. The only other contact I've had was when a much higher level player came whizzing through one of the easy zones wiping out everything, including what I was killing at the time. No loot for the newb, lol.
    So thus far, I must agree that if I were a "new" new player, I'd be discouraged. As a re-newb I'll say I hope my experience thus far is an exception rather than the rule.
     
  6. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

    Messages:
    7,944
    Likes Received:
    9,015
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Hemut
    Do you have a universal orb to talk in our new universe chat?
     
    Leah Snow likes this.
  7. Leah Snow

    Leah Snow Avatar

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I may. I briefly looked in my list of goodies to claim but only picked up the green cloak. I'll check as soon as I log back in. If I do, that would be awesome. :)
     
    Jaesun likes this.
  8. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

    Messages:
    7,944
    Likes Received:
    9,015
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Hemut
    The new universe chat is great. People are always happy to help. Feel free to add me Anpu as a friend. I am always happy to help.
     
    Leah Snow likes this.
  9. Maya SaintClaire

    Maya SaintClaire Avatar

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Good morning everybody! Got my coffee and logged in to find more responses to this thread! Yay! Thank you!

    Thanks for responding @Bedawyn ! You are absolutely correct about my statement that "the core player base in SOTA has become spoiled, entitled, demanding, unrealistic, argumentative". Please allow me to apologize here and now to the community at large. I don't think everyone in the community falls into this category and I should have said...

    "Because the game was crowd-funded, and because so many of the regulars here invested tons of money and hopes and desires into this game, and because Portalarium feels the tremendous pressure to satisfy their fiduciary responsibility to that heavily invested and loyal base, [SOME IN] the core player base in SOTA have become spoiled, entitled, demanding, unrealistic, argumentative, disillusioned and carrying more than a little "buyers remorse". This creates a viscous cycle in the following sense...."

    But I also stated multiple times and in various different ways that everyone's reactions to this very unique timeline is understandable, predictable, without malice and certainly without blame or judgement on my part. I also believe that most people here understand that my intentions with this thread are not to point fingers and accuse anyone of anything, but merely to point out that we are marching down an unproductive road, not getting the results we need with whatever current or previous plan may or may not have been implemented, and not really satisfying anyone with actual tangible progress. I am not a professional writer. I consider myself to be a fairly proficient analyst though, and what I wrote is and was my own personal analysis of the situation. So yes Bedawyn, I am indeed "really interested in a productive conversation without rudeness". So other than this correction, I will let my original post stand, and the remainder of your response speak for itself too.

    ______________________________________________________

    Hey @Greyfox ! Thanks for the nod of confidence but I am just like all the rest of you, for the most part. For many reasons I want SOTA to thrive and survive. The difference in me and most of you here is that I am new, know far less than you all do, and don't have the knowledge of the micro-details of the history that got us to this place. I do however have a clear view of where we are at the moment and I think I am in concert with just about everyone here when I say it could be better.

    I couldn't agree more that it boggles the mind some of the directions the devs have gone into, when basics are clearly overlooked and scoffed at. In their defense though, this is a common occurrence when smart people set out on a ground breaking mission and dare to challenge the status quo. And credit where credit is due, Richard and Starr are visionaries, and we all love the essence of their vision, as we did in UO.

    I think what happens is that when people approach a project that is vast, multifaceted, intricate in detail, as yet undefined, not fully planned and rife with enthusiasm and raw excitement... they start a conversation about where to get started, pick a spot to begin, endless hours of thoughts and ideas ensue and soon some aspects of the original core idea are overshadowed ever so slightly by new more detailed concepts. Then, as days, weeks, months and yes, years pass, each day adds to and contributes to that new bubble of vision that is now influenced by not only the original idea, but now by the new stimulus and ideas that have been added to the mix. Add to that the new influences and pressures that go along with a large base of "investors", residual personal interests like space exploration, and you end up with.... where we are today :). In short, they have, to some degree, lost their way.

    I can't argue that the developers are a major part of the reason the game is in the state its in, but that's not what I intended with this thread. Certainly they are, but so are the players themselves, and let me reiterate, this is not a blame issue and there are no sides to take. Nobody did this with intent. Again, my feeling is that its simply a matter of stimulus and effect. My point with this thread is to add a voice to the "OK this is how it is, what do we do about it?" caucus.

    Now let me say that as far as I am concerned you have hit the proverbial nail right on the head with this... "If/when the game becomes successful the reason will be the community" and this... "I believe the user generated content vastly exceeds what the Developers have created. They just need to give us the proper tools to continue creating."

    I happen to have a fairly high degree of experience and knowledge in virtual world development and content creation. I still derive income from 3d platforms where some of my own content is still marketed directly to users/players. I have a keen interest in the continued development of the various game engines like Unity and Unreal, and have dived pretty deeply into OpenSim too which I feel presents tremendous possibilities for the future of 3d/Virtual/VR. Lending credibility to what you stated here, I can say with certainty that it is quickly becoming common knowledge among virtual platform developers and producers that giving the user base more tools and abilities to affect the world meaningfully and directly have a positive effect on growth and retention.

    To be clear, those abilities and tools have to be regulated with checks and balances that eliminate the understandable influence on a world by a relatively few users who either clutter the world with less than desirable content or exploit the tools to a negative end. That said, I am always amazed at the creativity of players/residents and what they contribute. You are so right Greyfox, Portalarium needs to get very serious about allowing and enabling players to create and influence this world. They have the ability to do so, they need to make the DECISION to do so.

    The result would be beneficial to the company itself and the players. Still, while this is something I strongly believe in, and would advocate, my intention with this particular thread is to address the pressing and urgent issue of player attrition which I believe will cause our demise before greater programs like these could be developed or implemented, even though if they existed today they would help keep new players. To give you an example, Linden Labs (operators of "Second Life") enjoy a 60 million dollar a year profit in a world I would consider a failure in many senses. They could be much bigger than they are now (and were in the past) if they responded to some serious issues like adult content in non-adult areas and griefing, but.... I would say that 60 million a year for a failure is pretty damn good, right? That's the power of user/player created content.

    We need to be able to add logos, artwork, and TEXT to signs, player created products and items. We need a lot more control over guilds, quests, events and social activities. We need to be able to have much more control over placement and sizing of game items. Not having more control in these areas stifles our ability to use game items to decorate in ways we otherwise could. We need to be able to develop and offer player created content to Portalarium for inclusion, or a player content "marketplace" to pick up the slack in areas the game doesnt offer the content we need to fulfill our own projects.

    Thanks for jumping in Greyfox!

    _____________________________________________________

    Hey @Leah Snow ! WELCOME BACK! I am new but I am thrilled to see Player Investors returning rather than leaving. It can be frustrating to be sure but keep this in mind as you find your way again... These are really good people here, and willing to help in just about anything. We have to ask, but when we do they are there with answers, and often support. But I agree with you that much more could be done to allow new players a better experience.

    I think there needs to be a better understanding of what their (new player) choices are, more freedom to choose direction, more basic knowledge offered to make sure the actions they take are in concert with the direction and path they would like to take, and a simple and intuitive help system. And.... @Jaesun , aka "Anpu" is right that Universal chat is the best way to reach out at this time, and I'd like to add that he has helped me personally more times than I can count. He is always the first, or one of the first, to respond when I need information and I appreciate his and so many other players willingness to lend their knowledge when its needed. Welcome home Leah! :D

    _____________________________________________________

    My coffee is gone, so I will leave it at that for this morning but want to say again how much I appreciate the great response to this thread. Thank you all for the responses and the input of sound and heartfelt opinions and ideas. It is my desire to find a way to keep more of our new players in this game and I believe that the solutions will have to come from the players not the dev team. I cant say enough that the positive effects on all of us if we accomplish even a small amount of steady growth in this game will bring untold benefits to us all in the end. I look forward to hearing lots more ideas about how we can solve this critical and urgent problem.

    Ciao for now! :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.